Ordination of Women

[Roy5]

edwest2

Agreed. I, too, worry about the decline in public morals and civility. I don’t think that is related in any way to ordination of women. While I’m aware that most priests are men of integrity, there have been enough scandals in this area - some new ones always breaking -to be discouraging. Those that are not re sexual misconduct seem to focus on a priest who runs off with money, sometimes with another priest! I happen to think that the priesthood has attracted an unusually high percentage of gays. Why? (1) They don’t have to explain why they remain single. (2) They hope and pray that becoming a priest will enable them to control sexual urges. (3) They are attracted to an all-male fraternity. (4) The liturgy, vestments, etc., can have a special appeal. Let me add that I do not favor discrimination against gays, but only celibate ones belong in the priesthood.

Now, that word Protestant. Many scholars of the Reformation will break it down differently. Pro-test - protesting for (pro = for) the faith. Martin Luther, right or wrong, wanted to restore integrity to the Church. The selling of indulgences to build St. Peter's in Rome was a corruption, something the Council of Trent confronted during the Counter-Reformation. If you are suggesting that the Protestants are more 'anti' than Catholics, I haven't found this true, especially among mainline Protestants. They are eager to be ecumenical, and while their views differ in various ways from those of Catholicism they are likely to respect other Christian and even non-Christian religions. Here on CAF I have found enormous hostility toward Protestantism. I subscribe to the *Our Sunday Visitor*, for example, and barely an issue arrives that doesn't have an article or two that includes defensive-sounding criticism of Protestantism.

 My concern over the years (and I am not young, either) is that Christians should stop this silly criticism. Disagree, fine. Discuss, fine. But to say, as even Benedict XVI has written, that Protestant ministers are not properly ordained or that their churches should not be called churches but 'ecclesial entities' insults fellow Christians. Even if he thought this he should not have said it. 

  I am quite aware of the Catholic charismatic movement, though it has dwindled to a shadow of its former self in this area. Some left to join one or another Pentecostal denomination. I have never read a good explanation of why it lost the enthusiasm that it had 20-30 years ago. Do you know of one?

  May God bless His children of every creed, color, country and congregation.

 

[PRmerger]

My concern over the years (and I am not young, either) is that Christians should stop this silly criticism. Disagree, fine. Discuss, fine. But to say, as even Benedict XVI has written, that Protestant ministers are not properly ordained or that their churches should not be called churches but ‘ecclesial entities’ insults fellow Christians. Even if he thought this he should not have said it.

I have always found this paradigm curious: one ought not speak the truth lest it insults.

Who could doubt that Jesus offended many? Who could doubt that hiis words, "I am the Way, the Truth and the Life’ were insulting to his fellow Jews?

Surely his injunction that those who divorce and re-marry commit adultery made a few hearts wince.

No doubt that there was a scorned woman that felt quite offended whilst her husband was forgiven of his adultery by our Lord.

 

[edwest2]

edwest2

Agreed. I, too, worry about the decline in public morals and civility. I don’t think that is related in any way to ordination of women. While I’m aware that most priests are men of integrity, there have been enough scandals in this area - some new ones always breaking -to be discouraging. Those that are not re sexual misconduct seem to focus on a priest who runs off with money, sometimes with another priest! I happen to think that the priesthood has attracted an unusually high percentage of gays. Why? (1) They don’t have to explain why they remain single. (2) They hope and pray that becoming a priest will enable them to control sexual urges. (3) They are attracted to an all-male fraternity. (4) The liturgy, vestments, etc., can have a special appeal. Let me add that I do not favor discrimination against gays, but only celibate ones belong in the priesthood.

Now, that word Protestant. Many scholars of the Reformation will break it down differently. Pro-test - protesting for (pro = for) the faith. Martin Luther, right or wrong, wanted to restore integrity to the Church. The selling of indulgences to build St. Peter's in Rome was a corruption, something the Council of Trent confronted during the Counter-Reformation. If you are suggesting that the Protestants are more 'anti' than Catholics, I haven't found this true, especially among mainline Protestants. They are eager to be ecumenical, and while their views differ in various ways from those of Catholicism they are likely to respect other Christian and even non-Christian religions. Here on CAF I have found enormous hostility toward Protestantism. I subscribe to the *Our Sunday Visitor*, for example, and barely an issue arrives that doesn't have an article or two that includes defensive-sounding criticism of Protestantism.

 My concern over the years (and I am not young, either) is that Christians should stop this silly criticism. Disagree, fine. Discuss, fine. But to say, as even Benedict XVI has written, that Protestant ministers are not properly ordained or that their churches should not be called churches but 'ecclesial entities' insults fellow Christians. Even if he thought this he should not have said it. 

  I am quite aware of the Catholic charismatic movement, though it has dwindled to a shadow of its former self in this area. Some left to join one or another Pentecostal denomination. I have never read a good explanation of why it lost the enthusiasm that it had 20-30 years ago. Do you know of one?

  May God bless His children of every creed, color, country and congregation.

You should study the devastating effects of radical feminism which has directly connected itself to so-called gay rights. Homosexuals should never be bullied but you will notice that the radical redefinition of marriage is directly connected to the radical redefinition of “woman.”

Shortly after the National Organization for Women was founded, loud and viciously anti-men and anti-family speeches became the “norm” for the promotion of what was called “women’s liberation.” What was that exactly?

Denying their own biology and criticizing motherhood as a good.
Denying even a species relationship between men and women. “A woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle.” Gloria Steinem, co-founder of Ms. Magazine, and yes, that’s where that word came from.
Establishing Women’s Studies courses in universities to generate a greater sense of separation between men and women.

Creating the fictional antipatriarchal movement with its “glass ceiling” nonsense. Women are and will be the eternal victim class of the eternal enemy class - men. This is just a rephrasing of the entire Marxist/Communist mindset of eternal class warfare.

In its final analysis - this is a bunch of little girls who want to play being priest and CEO and the man-woman that can do all things while ignoring the reality of her biology and emotional/psychological difference from men which she, as a woman, literally has no control over.

Clearly, what is happening here is a recreation of woman into a false role that denies the reality of natural womanhood and desires to artificially recreate it into something unnatural from a purely biological and psychosocial reality. And Catholic women can and are doing this at the price of instant excommunication. Pretending to be a man or a priest, does not make you one.

And yes, I know why Luther did what he did, but the Catholic Church survived and will continue on.

I must point out that it is becoming common to say that while one can think something, he should not say it out loud. This is a recent thought experiment and will shortly be overthrown by another. Respectfully, some are living under an illusion created by an addiction to change. Their view of reality requires constant change. I have read it over and over and over again. However, to those who require change, I ask why? In my view, the primary reason is to escape boredom.

For those who have the time, there are many human beings who require one thing: someone who will listen and understand and who has a realistic answer. Not theories. Not experiments. An answer. I help no one by giving them an answer today and a different one a few months from now. The answer - the right answer - is the answer. And once I have it, that’s it.

Peace,
Ed