Ordinations Still Valid?

[dominikus28]

There are arguements by sedevacantists and others that the rite of ordination in the Catholic Church post-Vatican II is invalid or questionable (easy to be made invalid by mistake). My question is, IF a Bishop was ordaining a priest and that Bishop intentionally (or unintentionally) changed the forumla, etc such that the ordination was technically not valid, and no one knew about this except the Bishop himself, would that invalidly ordained priest still maintain Apostolic succession? If no one knew it was invalid, then that priest went on to ordain others (as a Bishop) then apostolic succession would be broken?

Also, does changing the rite of ordination so that it is invalid (like the Anglicans did) change dogma? Would this kind of error be prevented by the Holy Spirit? It isn’t really a teaching, so I’m just wondering…

 

[Prophesy]

There are arguements by sedevacantists and others that the rite of ordination in the Catholic Church post-Vatican II is invalid or questionable (easy to be made invalid by mistake). My question is, IF a Bishop was ordaining a priest and that Bishop intentionally (or unintentionally) changed the forumla, etc such that the ordination was technically not valid, and no one knew about this except the Bishop himself, would that invalidly ordained priest still maintain Apostolic succession? If no one knew it was invalid, then that priest went on to ordain others (as a Bishop) then apostolic succession would be broken?

Also, does changing the rite of ordination so that it is invalid (like the Anglicans did) change dogma? Would this kind of error be prevented by the Holy Spirit? It isn’t really a teaching, so I’m just wondering…

The simple answer is this, the priest doesn’t carry apostolic succession in the first place. That is something passed down through the bishops.

-Prophecy

 

[Ron_Conte]

The merciful and wise God did not establish His Sacraments in such a manner that they are so fragile as to easily become invalid by a minor change in wording.

The Church has sufficient authority over the Sacraments to change the wording, if She so chooses, to allow a range of different wordings, and to establish, and to some limited extent dispense from, criteria for validity and for licitness of the Sacraments.

 

[Joe_Kelley]

I will build my church, and the powers of death * shall not prevail against it.

Matthew 16:18

If the ordinations are not valid, the Church has been defeated and the powers of death have prevailed. One can maintain that position only if one declares Jesus a liar.

 

[DexUK]

While words might depart from the rules laid down at the present moment by the Church in all its authority, what doesn’t change is the authority vested in the Bishop by virtue of his own ordination.

While the Bishop might be committing an abuse, provided that the ordinands meet the requirements of the Church for becoming priests and provided that the intention of the Bishop is to ordain them under the authority that is granted to him by right of his own ordination, then their orders are valid.

I could lay on hands and repeat, exactly correctly, the words a bishop uses, but I couldn’t ordain a fly.

A bishop can lay hands on an ordinand and fumble lots of words, and it would work, even if he got himself into lots of trouble as a result of his fumbling.