D
dahs
Guest
Now, don’t hate on this question. I’ve talked to others with this question and haven’t been able to find any good debate.
Can you show me in magisterial documents where is says that male or female orgasm (outside of the marital act) is not allowed. Note: I’m talking about a married couple.
Although I have heard from Christopher West and many others giving reasons why they feel a man should not orgasm outside the context of the marital act, I can’t find it in church documents. The church documents that people point to usually talk about people who are NOT married or about masturbation/lust. Below are some of the arguments made by a friend where he responds to church documents used by some to show that male orgasm outside of the marital act is not allowed:
HUMANAE VITAE 14
“Therefore We base Our words on the first principles of a human and Christian doctrine of marriage when We are obliged once more to declare that the direct interruption of the generative process already begun and, above all, all direct abortion, even for therapeutic reasons, are to be absolutely excluded as lawful means of regulating the number of children. (14) Equally to be condemned, as the magisterium of the Church has affirmed on many occasions, is direct sterilization, whether of the man or of the woman, whether permanent or temporary.”
Friend’s response: There’s no act of intercourse [with orgasm outside the marital act], no coming together of the two halves of one reproductive system, no act that’s existential in nature. So no, it’s not contraception.
Given the sentence that the phrase “generative process” is used in, I think Pope Paul is referring to the development of an embryo.
Casti Connubii
“[A]ny use whatsoever of matrimony exercised in such a way that the act is deliberately frustrated in its natural power to generate life is an offense against the law of God and of nature, and those who indulge in such are branded with the guilt of a grave sin.”
Friend’s response: “The act” is a kind of act that has a “natural power to generate life.” What is the only act that can generate new life? Intercourse.
Me: So, my friend’s main argument is that orgasm outside of the context of intercourse is not contraception since the church only condemns this within the context of the marital act (intercourse). He gives the same explanation for the sin of Onan. Onan sinned bc he withdrew from intercourse, not because his seed was spilled.
He said much more about this, but I want to hear what you guys think, but please back it up with church docs.
I pray the Lord will lead.
Can you show me in magisterial documents where is says that male or female orgasm (outside of the marital act) is not allowed. Note: I’m talking about a married couple.
Although I have heard from Christopher West and many others giving reasons why they feel a man should not orgasm outside the context of the marital act, I can’t find it in church documents. The church documents that people point to usually talk about people who are NOT married or about masturbation/lust. Below are some of the arguments made by a friend where he responds to church documents used by some to show that male orgasm outside of the marital act is not allowed:
HUMANAE VITAE 14
“Therefore We base Our words on the first principles of a human and Christian doctrine of marriage when We are obliged once more to declare that the direct interruption of the generative process already begun and, above all, all direct abortion, even for therapeutic reasons, are to be absolutely excluded as lawful means of regulating the number of children. (14) Equally to be condemned, as the magisterium of the Church has affirmed on many occasions, is direct sterilization, whether of the man or of the woman, whether permanent or temporary.”
Friend’s response: There’s no act of intercourse [with orgasm outside the marital act], no coming together of the two halves of one reproductive system, no act that’s existential in nature. So no, it’s not contraception.
Given the sentence that the phrase “generative process” is used in, I think Pope Paul is referring to the development of an embryo.
Casti Connubii
“[A]ny use whatsoever of matrimony exercised in such a way that the act is deliberately frustrated in its natural power to generate life is an offense against the law of God and of nature, and those who indulge in such are branded with the guilt of a grave sin.”
Friend’s response: “The act” is a kind of act that has a “natural power to generate life.” What is the only act that can generate new life? Intercourse.
Me: So, my friend’s main argument is that orgasm outside of the context of intercourse is not contraception since the church only condemns this within the context of the marital act (intercourse). He gives the same explanation for the sin of Onan. Onan sinned bc he withdrew from intercourse, not because his seed was spilled.
He said much more about this, but I want to hear what you guys think, but please back it up with church docs.
I pray the Lord will lead.
Last edited by a moderator: