Oriel36's claim that the Holy Spirit is not a Person

[oriel36]

Ghosty:

. In another thread I voiced my opinion that he was schizophrenic directly to him, and he quoted that part of my post and went off about gematria and how 666 doesn’t actually add up to anything.

What I did say is that 666 as part of the mathematical facet of Revelation cannot be identified with any person in particular while you associate it with Nero.

Just as Augustine determined that 153 is the sum of the numbers from 1 to 17,it is no big deal to determine that 666 is the sum of numbers from 1 to 36.

Someday it may be possible to discuss the ins and outs of the structure with responsible people but until then they can enjoy those little hints that bring sharper definition to the mathematical facet.

As is my custom

126 + 9 = 135 + 9 = 144 + 9 = 153 + 9 = 162

There are lots of ways to express three sixes and all within the exquisite structure of Revelation.( see 666 as sum of numbers from 1 to 36 in tandem with Augustine treatment of 153)

234 + 432 = 666

432/2 = 216 = 666

The Holy Spirit brings all these dormant things to life,they belong to Jesus and nobody can speak for these Works and especially not Revelation.They can however enjoy sharing and as far as possible to search out the structure for why otherwise would the author have said - " here is a clue for one who has wisdom".

The only possible way to comprehend the Book of Revelation is in the same Spirit in which it is written.Normally it is allowed that the Holy Spirit is a person for those who are yet to be born in Spirit just as you can happily identify Nero as the anti-Christ in lieu of actually coming to know the spirit of the anti-christ.

I have always said that a Catholic is no better or worse for understanding Revelation but considering the brute reasoning that some converts to Catholicism display it is well that it remains as a dormant miracle.

 

[dennisknapp]

oriel36:

What I did say is that 666 as part of the mathematical facet of Revelation cannot be identified with any person in particular while you associate it with Nero.

Just as Augustine determined that 153 is the sum of the numbers from 1 to 17,it is no big deal to determine that 666 is the sum of numbers from 1 to 36.

Someday it may be possible to discuss the ins and outs of the structure with responsible people but until then they can enjoy those little hints that bring sharper definition to the mathematical facet.

As is my custom

126 + 9 = 135 + 9 = 144 + 9 = 153 + 9 = 162

There are lots of ways to express three sixes and all within the exquisite structure of Revelation.( see 666 as sum of numbers from 1 to 36 in tandem with Augustine treatment of 153)

234 + 432 = 666

432/2 = 216 = 666

The Holy Spirit brings all these dormant things to life,they belong to Jesus and nobody can speak for these Works and especially not Revelation.They can however enjoy sharing and as far as possible to search out the structure for why otherwise would the author have said - " here is a clue for one who has wisdom".

The only possible way to comprehend the Book of Revelation is in the same Spirit in which it is written.Normally it is allowed that the Holy Spirit is a person for those who are yet to be born in Spirit just as you can happily identify Nero as the anti-Christ in lieu of actually coming to know the spirit of the anti-christ.

I have always said that a Catholic is no better or worse for understanding Revelation but considering the brute reasoning that some converts to Catholicism display it is well that it remains as a dormant miracle.

Are you saying that if one is born of the Spirit, God speaks to that person directly? At that point Revelation is no longer needed because one has direct access to God through the Spirit.

Is this close to what you are saying?

Peace

 

[oriel36]

dennisknapp:

Are you saying that if one is born of the Spirit, God speaks to that person directly? At that point Revelation is no longer needed because one has direct access to God through the Spirit.

Is this close to what you are saying?

Peace

This is getting unintentionally hilarious and I already have used treasured texts to take this as far as I can or at least remind Western Catholics that their heritage was once magnificent.

It has been useful because it is crystal clear than a variation of Catholicism is now emerging,at least in outward appearance it looks Catholic and this new form relies on the bible and the catachism as some sort of godly constitution but is really an adaption of secular law with all the attendent phrases of proof,evidence,claims ect.It is though you could turn Paul back into a Pharisee and wave the catechism like evangelists wave the bible with the Pope as some sort of supreme judge.

You talk about ‘direct access to God’ as though you had a great bearded gentleman in the sky in mind but if this is all you can manage at least it is something.

St Francis had direct access to God,Spirit and Jesus for reaffirming Dionysius the Areopagite in a different and more human way,all uncertainties are swept away and we affirm God not in spite of difficulties,trials and humiliations but because of them.

’And now hear the conclusion, Brother Leo. Above all the graces and gifts of the Holy Spirit which Christ gives to His friends is that of conquering oneself and willingly enduring sufferings, insults, humiliations, and hardships for the love of Christ. For we cannot glory in all those other marvelous gifts of God, as they are not ours but God’s, as the Apostle says: ‘What have you that you have not received?’ But we can glory in the cross of tribulations and afflictions, because that is ours, and so the Apostle says: ‘I will not glory save in the Cross of Our Lord Jesus Christ.’"

To whom be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen.

feastofsaints.com/perfectjoy.htm

Anyone can affirm that God is one thing or another just as you can endlessly repeat slogans of peace,joy ,love for the life of Catholic implies them without outwardly professing it and we can enjoy the community without making ourselves feel better at the expense of fellow Christians.

The other Christian who is destined for the life of the Spirit must learn to live with impatience,humiliations and trials and count them as nothing nor appearing as a victim of injustice either spiritual or natural but that is a road where you find the saints.

" we may affirm or deny the things below it, we can neither affirm nor deny it, inasmuch as the all-perfect and unique Cause of all things transcends all affirmation, and the simple pre-eminence of Its absolute nature is outside of every negation- free from every limitation and beyond them all."
voidspace.org.uk/esoteric/mystical_theology.html

St Francis shows the most human face of Jesus yet his voice added to the many who have known the life of the Spirit cannot be undermined by those who know no better and imagine that waving a catechism will constitute faith.

I would not care to use the treaured texts again in order to justify my position for I claim nothing and only remind Catholics that there existed a time when two types of Christians walked the Earth and it will happen again.

 

[dennisknapp]

oriel36:

This is getting unintentionally hilarious and I already have used treasured texts to take this as far as I can or at least remind Western Catholics that their heritage was once magnificent.

It has been useful because it is crystal clear than a variation of Catholicism is now emerging,at least in outward appearance it looks Catholic and this new form relies on the bible and the catachism as some sort of godly constitution but is really an adaption of secular law with all the attendent phrases of proof,evidence,claims ect.It is though you could turn Paul back into a Pharisee and wave the catechism like evangelists wave the bible with the Pope as some sort of supreme judge.

You talk about ‘direct access to God’ as though you had a great bearded gentleman in the sky in mind but if this is all you can manage at least it is something.

St Francis had direct access to God,Spirit and Jesus for reaffirming Dionysius the Areopagite in a different and more human way,all uncertainties are swept away and we affirm God not in spite of difficulties,trials and humiliations but because of them.

’And now hear the conclusion, Brother Leo. Above all the graces and gifts of the Holy Spirit which Christ gives to His friends is that of conquering oneself and willingly enduring sufferings, insults, humiliations, and hardships for the love of Christ. For we cannot glory in all those other marvelous gifts of God, as they are not ours but God’s, as the Apostle says: ‘What have you that you have not received?’ But we can glory in the cross of tribulations and afflictions, because that is ours, and so the Apostle says: ‘I will not glory save in the Cross of Our Lord Jesus Christ.’"

To whom be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen.

feastofsaints.com/perfectjoy.htm

Anyone can affirm that God is one thing or another just as you can endlessly repeat slogans of peace,joy ,love for the life of Catholic implies them without outwardly professing it and we can enjoy the community without making ourselves feel better at the expense of fellow Christians.

The other Christian who is destined for the life of the Spirit must learn to live with impatience,humiliations and trials and count them as nothing nor appearing as a victim of injustice either spiritual or natural but that is a road where you find the saints.

" we may affirm or deny the things below it, we can neither affirm nor deny it, inasmuch as the all-perfect and unique Cause of all things transcends all affirmation, and the simple pre-eminence of Its absolute nature is outside of every negation- free from every limitation and beyond them all."
voidspace.org.uk/esoteric/mystical_theology.html

St Francis shows the most human face of Jesus yet his voice added to the many who have known the life of the Spirit cannot be undermined by those who know no better and imagine that waving a catechism will constitute faith.

I would not care to use the treaured texts again in order to justify my position for I claim nothing and only remind Catholics that there existed a time when two types of Christians walked the Earth and it will happen again.

Here is a quiz!

Is the Holy Spirit a Person? Yes or No?

Should Protestants be allowed to take communion in the Catholic Church? Yes or No?

What is the name of the Church you attend? (Example, St. So and So.)

Have you ever read the Catechism of the Catholic Church? Yes or No?

Who is your favorite Church Father?

Thanks!

Peace

 

[Ghosty]

What I did say is that 666 as part of the mathematical facet of Revelation cannot be identified with any person in particular while you associate it with Nero.

Just as Augustine determined that 153 is the sum of the numbers from 1 to 17,it is no big deal to determine that 666 is the sum of numbers from 1 to 36.

the rest snipped…

So can I rest my case or not? Where the HELL did I mention Nero?

 

[oriel36]

Ghosty:

So can I rest my case or not? Where the HELL did I mention Nero?

The intricate mathematical and geometric nature of the values in Revelation, of which 666 is one among many, do not lend themselves to intepretation by brute mentalities.

For any Christian or whatever reasonable denomination,the Johannine Word contains the Spirit by which the Book of Revelation is judged for no Earthly wisdom was involved in its construction and the purpose and intents to which it tends.

You cannot rightly approach the clues in Revelation as the author set them out without knowing what Holy Spirit and Advocate is within the Johannine Word.For all good Catholics there is no pressure to grasp Revelation nor designating a particular character as the antichrist no more than they are required to identify the Holy Spirit as a person.

As is my custom

4+3+2 = 9
4+3 = 7
4+2 = 6
3+2 = 5
4
3
2

No 8th king

10 + 8 authority for an hour

108 * 4 = 432
144* 3 = 432
216* 2 =432

The sequence shows up in contemporary geometry in a very specific non periodic way.

216 minus 144 = 72
144 minus 108 = 36

36,72,108,144 degrees for one who has wisdom.

I would not care if you ever looked on these things for they are not for you .It is not required to understand them save they signify what 666 is not,indeed you have not said they represent Nero and it is unlikely that you will expand on what it means and what it does.The Spirit of the Johannine author remains intact from brutes whether they call themselves Catholic or not.

 

[oriel36]

dennisknapp:

Here is a quiz!

Is the Holy Spirit a Person? Yes or No?

Should Protestants be allowed to take communion in the Catholic Church? Yes or No?

What is the name of the Church you attend? (Example, St. So and So.)

Have you ever read the Catechism of the Catholic Church? Yes or No?

Who is your favorite Church Father?

Thanks!

Peace

Nobody converts to Catholicism,they may adopt Catholic rituals hence nobody disturbs the conversion as a gift from God which is a sacred part of Catholic tradition and belief.

Clearly you have adopted the Cathechism as some type of variation of secular law and it is at least good to know that this new strain will be a duller version of bible waving representing brute mentalities who know no better.

There is no known remedy for those who forward the law as a standard for Christianity and adopting the Cathecism as some sort of extension to belief is sadly a sign of dismal things to come.People like you learn that criticism can be defered by appealing to the Cathechism but unless you have’nt forgotten -

“And if anyone hears my words and does not observe them, I do not condemn him, for I did not come to condemn the world but to save the world. Whoever rejects me and does not accept my words has something to judge him: the word that I spoke, it will condemn him on the last day, because I did not speak on my own, but the Father who sent me commanded me what to say and speak.And I know that his commandment is eternal life. So what I say, I say as the Father told me.”
usccb.org/nab/bible/john/john12.htm

Not observing the words of Jesus is one thing,perverting or diluting the meaning is quite something else and this is why a good Catholic accepts the ordinances of his community while leaving the door open for true conversion in the Spirit.

You behave in a crude way with no attributes save that you wave the Cathechism as some kind of godly constitution but is and nevr was Catholicism.

 

[dennisknapp]

oriel36:

Nobody converts to Catholicism,they may adopt Catholic rituals hence nobody disturbs the conversion as a gift from God which is a sacred part of Catholic tradition and belief.

Clearly you have adopted the Cathechism as some type of variation of secular law and it is at least good to know that this new strain will be a duller version of bible waving representing brute mentalities who know no better.

There is no known remedy for those who forward the law as a standard for Christianity and adopting the Cathecism as some sort of extension to belief is sadly a sign of dismal things to come.People like you learn that criticism can be defered by appealing to the Cathechism but unless you have’nt forgotten -

“And if anyone hears my words and does not observe them, I do not condemn him, for I did not come to condemn the world but to save the world. Whoever rejects me and does not accept my words has something to judge him: the word that I spoke, it will condemn him on the last day, because I did not speak on my own, but the Father who sent me commanded me what to say and speak.And I know that his commandment is eternal life. So what I say, I say as the Father told me.”
usccb.org/nab/bible/john/john12.htm

Not observing the words of Jesus is one thing,perverting or diluting the meaning is quite something else and this is why a good Catholic accepts the ordinances of his community while leaving the door open for true conversion in the Spirit.

You behave in a crude way with no attributes save that you wave the Cathechism as some kind of godly constitution but is and nevr was Catholicism.

I just want yes or no answers or one word answers.

Thanks.

Peace

 

[dennisknapp]

oriel36:

Nobody converts to Catholicism,they may adopt Catholic rituals hence nobody disturbs the conversion as a gift from God which is a sacred part of Catholic tradition and belief.

Clearly you have adopted the Cathechism as some type of variation of secular law and it is at least good to know that this new strain will be a duller version of bible waving representing brute mentalities who know no better.

There is no known remedy for those who forward the law as a standard for Christianity and adopting the Cathecism as some sort of extension to belief is sadly a sign of dismal things to come.People like you learn that criticism can be defered by appealing to the Cathechism but unless you have’nt forgotten -

“And if anyone hears my words and does not observe them, I do not condemn him, for I did not come to condemn the world but to save the world. Whoever rejects me and does not accept my words has something to judge him: the word that I spoke, it will condemn him on the last day, because I did not speak on my own, but the Father who sent me commanded me what to say and speak.And I know that his commandment is eternal life. So what I say, I say as the Father told me.”
usccb.org/nab/bible/john/john12.htm

Not observing the words of Jesus is one thing,perverting or diluting the meaning is quite something else and this is why a good Catholic accepts the ordinances of his community while leaving the door open for true conversion in the Spirit.

You behave in a crude way with no attributes save that you wave the Cathechism as some kind of godly constitution but is and nevr was Catholicism.

Can you not provide yes or no answeres?

 

[Ignatius]

oriel36:

The Holy Spirit comes from the deeps and brings a person to that deep

Why do you claim to be Catholic, Are you Anglican?

 

[oriel36]

Ignatius:

Why do you claim to be Catholic, Are you Anglican?

I havre just witnessed Fr Ambrose suspended while you brutes run around shouting usless slogans and waving the Catechism.

You doubt my Catholicism and that is fine however those who run this forum have proven themselves to be less than capable of sensing where the discussions are coming from and going to as Spiritual material and to a lesser extent the quality of intellectual application to these matters.

I am correct that the horror of an emerging brand of belief that in outward appearances adopts a Catholic face but is really the worse excesses of Pharisaic Judaism with its emphasis on the law has appeared.

 

[dennisknapp]

oriel36:

I havre just witnessed Fr Ambrose suspended while you brutes run around shouting usless slogans and waving the Catechism.

You doubt my Catholicism and that is fine however those who run this forum have proven themselves to be less than capable of sensing where the discussions are coming from and going to as Spiritual material and to a lesser extent the quality of intellectual application to these matters.

I am correct that the horror of an emerging brand of belief that in outward appearances adopts a Catholic face but is really the worse excesses of Pharisaic Judaism with its emphasis on the law has appeared.

All I ever asked of you was a clear answer, all I recieved was confusion. I am sorry your views do not agree with official Church teaching.

I hope one day you come to an understand and except the truth.

Peace

 

[oriel36]

dennisknapp:

All I ever asked of you was a clear answer, all I recieved was confusion. I am sorry your views do not agree with official Church teaching.

I hope one day you come to an understand and except the truth.

Peace

I give you the correct answer from the beginning in that two types of Christians exist which the Church recognises,Augustine framed the difference between Peter and John in a lovely and fairly accurate description.

If your intellectual level cannot comprehend why there cannot be a ‘yes’ and ‘no’ answer to your questions when you have not known conversion as a gift from God which distinguishes one Christian from another,I suggest others at least put a stop to your baiting of fellow Christians.

Most certainly you are a fundamentalist by your reply.

 

[dennisknapp]

oriel36:

I give you the correct answer from the beginning in that two types of Christians exist which the Church recognises,Augustine framed the difference between Peter and John in a lovely and fairly accurate description.

If your intellectual level cannot comprehend why there cannot be a ‘yes’ and ‘no’ answer to your questions when you have not known conversion as a gift from God which distinguishes one Christian from another,I suggest others at least put a stop to your baiting of fellow Christians.

Most certainly you are a fundamentalist by your reply.

What you teach here is not Catholic at all.

The Catholic Church teaches the Holy Spirit is a Person, the Third PERSON of the Blessed Trinity.

“We believe in the Holy Spirit**, the Lord, the giver of life,**
who proceeds from the Father and the Son.
With the Father and the Son he is worshiped and glorified.
He has spoken through the Prophets.
We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church.
We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
We look for the resurrection of the dead,
and the life of the world to come. Amen.”–Nicene Creed

This is what the Church teaches. In order to be a Catholic you MUST believe it. You do not believe it, therefore you are not Catholic.

I pray one day God opens your eyes to the Truth.

Peace

 

[oriel36]

dennisknapp:

What you teach here is not Catholic at all.

The Catholic Church teaches the Holy Spirit is a Person, the Third PERSON of the Blessed Trinity.

“We believe in the Holy Spirit**, the Lord, the giver of life,**
who proceeds from the Father and the Son.
With the Father and the Son he is worshiped and glorified.
He has spoken through the Prophets.
We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church.
We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
We look for the resurrection of the dead,
and the life of the world to come. Amen.”–Nicene Creed

This is what the Church teaches. In order to be a Catholic you MUST believe it. You do not believe it, therefore you are not Catholic.

I pray one day God opens your eyes to the Truth.

Peace

It is said that increasing secularisation will be the greatest difficulty facing the Church and to an extent this is true however I can identify an even greater problem of the dumbing down of the sacred texts to fundamentalist tendencies which have adopted the Catholic tradition,most of which is magnificent and some of it is not.

Normally the good and decent Catholic accepts words such as Spirit,God,Jesus within the community of practice as I would while leaving room for the conversion to understanding in the Spirit for such was the conversion of Paul.

If you shout that the Holy Spirit is a ‘PERSON’ and this clearly is permitted within Church teaching then it is fine,however if this is what you imagine to be the only answer, well this represents a particular brand of belief which is the lowest form of Christianity there is - the Alogi,and it cannot rightly be called Christianity.

"And this is the promise that he made us: eternal life.I write you these things about those who would deceive you.As for you, the anointing that you received from him remains in you, so that you do not need anyone to teach you. But his anointing teaches you about everything and is true and not false; just as it taught you, remain in him. "usccb.org/nab/bible/1john/1john2.htm
You present the shell of Christianity but not the substance,whatever you imagine you are doing it is by far more heartbreaking to see that you imagine you are more Catholic by attacking Protestant traditions than my presentations which present that diificulties and trivia dissapear when it is seen that there are two types of Christians within the Church.

The worst people have all the conviction and can go on indefinitely with their rubbish but His Majesty does things according to no human design which is why I call the sacred texts a living miracle and especially the Johannine Word.

If you are permitted to carry on believing that the Holy Spirit is a ‘PERSON’ according to human understanding I will most certainly withdraw from this forum because common sense dictates that fundamentalist cults cannot apply the more gentle Catholic approach to Spiritual matters as they are applied as a participant in the Catholic community and the great conversion where Spiritual matters reveal themselves in a more intimate understanding of Christ and Christianity.

It is not for you to reply to this time but for a responsible Catholic who may not agree with me but will most certainly leave room open for Holy Spirit as the sacred texts carry the Substance rather than communal declarations such as the Nicene creed.

 

[Catholic_Dude]

The more posts I read here it looks like this thread was a misunderstanding rather than a witch hunt.

I admit there is some stuff I am confused on, but if I understand the general idea then this dispute was unfounded to begin with. At first I had the impression that the Holy Spirit was outright denied, but the more posts that come up I find the real dispute is how one refers to it. The argument is like two Catholic rites going head to head (even splitting hairs) on issues not realizing they accept the same things but use different customs/conventions to demonstrate/describe them. We are on the same side here.

 

[dennisknapp]

Catholic Dude:

The more posts I read here it looks like this thread was a misunderstanding rather than a witch hunt.

I admit there is some stuff I am confused on, but if I understand the general idea then this dispute was unfounded to begin with. At first I had the impression that the Holy Spirit was outright denied, but the more posts that come up I find the real dispute is how one refers to it. The argument is like two Catholic rites going head to head (even splitting hairs) on issues not realizing they accept the same things but use different customs/conventions to demonstrate/describe them. We are on the same side here.

In what way is anything Oriel36 saying Catholic?

Peace

 

[dennisknapp]

oriel36:

It is said that increasing secularisation will be the greatest difficulty facing the Church and to an extent this is true however I can identify an even greater problem of the dumbing down of the sacred texts to fundamentalist tendencies which have adopted the Catholic tradition,most of which is magnificent and some of it is not.

Normally the good and decent Catholic accepts words such as Spirit,God,Jesus within the community of practice as I would while leaving room for the conversion to understanding in the Spirit for such was the conversion of Paul.

If you shout that the Holy Spirit is a ‘PERSON’ and this clearly is permitted within Church teaching then it is fine,however if this is what you imagine to be the only answer, well this represents a particular brand of belief which is the lowest form of Christianity there is - the Alogi,and it cannot rightly be called Christianity.

"And this is the promise that he made us: eternal life.I write you these things about those who would deceive you.As for you, the anointing that you received from him remains in you, so that you do not need anyone to teach you. But his anointing teaches you about everything and is true and not false; just as it taught you, remain in him. "usccb.org/nab/bible/1john/1john2.htm
You present the shell of Christianity but not the substance,whatever you imagine you are doing it is by far more heartbreaking to see that you imagine you are more Catholic by attacking Protestant traditions than my presentations which present that diificulties and trivia dissapear when it is seen that there are two types of Christians within the Church.

The worst people have all the conviction and can go on indefinitely with their rubbish but His Majesty does things according to no human design which is why I call the sacred texts a living miracle and especially the Johannine Word.

If you are permitted to carry on believing that the Holy Spirit is a ‘PERSON’ according to human understanding I will most certainly withdraw from this forum because common sense dictates that fundamentalist cults cannot apply the more gentle Catholic approach to Spiritual matters as they are applied as a participant in the Catholic community and the great conversion where Spiritual matters reveal themselves in a more intimate understanding of Christ and Christianity.

It is not for you to reply to this time but for a responsible Catholic who may not agree with me but will most certainly leave room open for Holy Spirit as the sacred texts carry the Substance rather than communal declarations such as the Nicene creed.

Let me get this straight:

Non-fundamentalist = obtuse, esoteric, illogical, name caller (ie fundementalist, of the devil), not in agreement with what the Catholic Church regarding the nature of God, the nature of the Church, and the nature of the Eucharist. (this is where you are)

Fundamentalist = clear argumentation, logical, someone who does not resort to name calling, is in agreement with the Catholic Church regarding the nature of God, the nature of the Church, and the nature of the Eucharist.

Well, then I am honored to be labeled as such.

Peace

 

[Stevereeno]

oriel36:

Most certainly you are a fundamentalist by your reply.

Uh-oh! Dennis, he called you the F-word. That reminds me of Cardinal Ratzinger’s homily the night before he was elected.

“Having a clear faith, based on the Creed of the Church, is often labeled today as a fundamentalism. Whereas, relativism, which is letting oneself be tossed and “swept along by every wind of teaching”, looks like the only attitude (acceptable) to today’s standards. We are moving towards a dictatorship of relativism which does not recognize anything as for certain and which has as its highest goal one’s own ego and one’s own desires.”

 

[dennisknapp]

Stevereeno:

Uh-oh! Dennis, he called you the F-word. That reminds me of Cardinal Ratzinger’s homily the night before he was elected.

“Having a clear faith, based on the Creed of the Church, is often labeled today as a fundamentalism. Whereas, relativism, which is letting oneself be tossed and “swept along by every wind of teaching”, looks like the only attitude (acceptable) to today’s standards. We are moving towards a dictatorship of relativism which does not recognize anything as for certain and which has as its highest goal one’s own ego and one’s own desires.”

Amen!

I guess me and the Holy Father will just have to make do.

Peace