Oriental Catholics

[Peter_J]

I’m just wondering what the term “Oriental Catholics” means to most people on this forum. In my experience there are (depending whom you ask) three possible ways of defining it:

1. “Oriental Catholic” is interchangeable with “Eastern Catholic”. (This is the usage on many official church documents.)
2. “Oriental Catholics” means only those EC Churches that have an Oriental Orthodox counterpart … thus the Coptic Catholic Church, the Ethiopian/Eritrean Catholic Church, the Armenian Catholic Church, the Syrian Catholic Church, and the Syro-Malankara Catholic Church.
3. A hybrid between 1 and 2, e.g. that “Oriental Catholics” means all Eastern Catholic Church that are not Greek/Byzantine. Thus, the 5 mentioned in (2) plus the Maronite Catholic Church, the Chaldean Catholic Church, and the Syro-Malabar Catholic Church.

P.S. I realize that terminology-questions aren’t very deep, but I figure it’s good to have a sense of what we’re all talking about.

 

[Jacob50]

I’m just wondering what the term “Oriental Catholics” means to most people on this forum. In my experience there are (depending whom you ask) three possible ways of defining it:

1. “Oriental Catholic” is interchangeable with “Eastern Catholic”. (This is the usage on many official church documents.)
2. “Oriental Catholics” means only those EC Churches that have an Oriental Orthodox counterpart … thus the Coptic Catholic Church, the Ethiopian/Eritrean Catholic Church, the Armenian Catholic Church, the Syrian Catholic Church, and the Syro-Malankara Catholic Church.
3. A hybrid between 1 and 2, e.g. that “Oriental Catholics” means all Eastern Catholic Church that are not Greek/Byzantine. Thus, the 5 mentioned in (2) plus the Maronite Catholic Church, the Chaldean Catholic Church, and the Syro-Malabar Catholic Church.

P.S. I realize that terminology-questions aren’t very deep, but I figure it’s good to have a sense of what we’re all talking about.

Well I have always understood it to be the 2nd definition you have up there. If I’m wrong make me know.

In some Spanish speaking countries, the word “Eastern” is completely interchangeable with “Oriental” because the word “Oriental” in Spanish, really means Eastern:
translate.google.com.mx/?hl=es&tab=wT#es/en/oriental

So what many do, is they just call all those Catholics in communion with Rome that are not Latins, “Catolicos Orientales”. All the churches you mentioned, fall under that category for some Spanish speaking countries and that may generate confusion. In Mexico for instance, they just say “Catolicos Orientales” for all “Orthodox in communion with Rome”, be it from Eastern Orthodox or Oriental Orthodox counterparts. I am not aware of two separate terms existing as “Eastern Catholics” and Oriental Catholics" exist in English. I am guessing, that many official documents indeed use the term “Oriental Catholics” this way, because Spanish is very similar to Latin in many ways.

It is indeed quite confusing because I have seen many people use the term “Oriental Catholic” very differently as you correctly pointed out up there.

 

[jeannetherese]

My first guess was from the Orient/Asian.
My second guess drew from the Sephardic/Oriental Jewish identity as opposed to the Ashkenazi.
Either way, it was a first instance and was confusing for me to see the words Oriental and Catholic together. To me, Catholics are Catholics.
May God bless you and all who visit your thread. Amen.

 

[ealfred]

I’m just wondering what the term “Oriental Catholics” means to most people on this forum. In my experience there are (depending whom you ask) three possible ways of defining it:

1. “Oriental Catholic” is interchangeable with “Eastern Catholic”. (This is the usage on many official church documents.)
2. “Oriental Catholics” means only those EC Churches that have an Oriental Orthodox counterpart … thus the Coptic Catholic Church, the Ethiopian/Eritrean Catholic Church, the Armenian Catholic Church, the Syrian Catholic Church, and the Syro-Malankara Catholic Church.
3. A hybrid between 1 and 2, e.g. that “Oriental Catholics” means all Eastern Catholic Church that are not Greek/Byzantine. Thus, the 5 mentioned in (2) plus the Maronite Catholic Church, the Chaldean Catholic Church, and the Syro-Malabar Catholic Church.

P.S. I realize that terminology-questions aren’t very deep, but I figure it’s good to have a sense of what we’re all talking about.

Well I would say it is both 1 and 3 depending on the context. Technically the Maronite Church is Oriental in the sense that it is a Western Syriac Church as with the Syriac Catholic Church. Also, I also heard people refering to all none Latin as Oriental.

 

[malphono]

I’m just wondering what the term “Oriental Catholics” means to most people on this forum. In my experience there are (depending whom you ask) three possible ways of defining it:

1. “Oriental Catholic” is interchangeable with “Eastern Catholic”. (This is the usage on many official church documents.)
2. “Oriental Catholics” means only those EC Churches that have an Oriental Orthodox counterpart … thus the Coptic Catholic Church, the Ethiopian/Eritrean Catholic Church, the Armenian Catholic Church, the Syrian Catholic Church, and the Syro-Malankara Catholic Church.
3. A hybrid between 1 and 2, e.g. that “Oriental Catholics” means all Eastern Catholic Church that are not Greek/Byzantine. Thus, the 5 mentioned in (2) plus the Maronite Catholic Church, the Chaldean Catholic Church, and the Syro-Malabar Catholic Church.

P.S. I realize that terminology-questions aren’t very deep, but I figure it’s good to have a sense of what we’re all talking about.

In fact, the terms are synonymous and have been for ages, so you’re “# 1” is technically correct.

In current usage, however, Rome has, when addressing the matter in English, split the definitions into what is actually your “# 3” in order to maintain clarity. (It’s interesting, too, that, for their part, the Oriental Orthodox seem to have adopted a similar nomenclature in English.) The English language, unlike most others, has two very distinct words, and this is one of the relatively rare cases where I agree with Rome. In general, including in this forum, I always stick to this usage. To me it’s clearer and a no-muss, no fuss solution.

 

[Peter_J]

Thanks all.

Malphono, do you have an example in mind? I don’t recall seeing “Oriental Catholic” used that way in any document from Rome. (Though perhaps my memory is just being uncooperative.)

In current usage, however, Rome has, when addressing the matter in English, split the definitions into what is actually your “# 3” in order to maintain clarity.

 

[malphono]

Malphono, do you have an example in mind? I don’t recall seeing “Oriental Catholic” used that way in any document from Rome. (Though perhaps my memory is just being uncooperative.)

So is mine right at the moment. Or maybe my memory is just faulty, and I’m extrapolating from the designation “Oriental Orthodox” as they differentiate themselves from “Eastern Orthodox”? In any case, though, that differentiation is 100% valid, both in terms of “communion” (which is mainly an inter- (or “intra-” depending on how one looks at it) Orthodox concern here) and history, origin, patrimony, etc, all of which, of course, concern the Churches “in union with Rome” to an equal degree.

 

[Peter_J]

1. “Oriental Catholics” means only those EC Churches that have an Oriental Orthodox counterpart … thus the Coptic Catholic Church, the Ethiopian/Eritrean Catholic Church, the Armenian Catholic Church, the Syrian Catholic Church, and the Syro-Malankara Catholic Church.

P.S.
4. The 5 churches mentioned in (2) plus the Maronite Catholic Church.

 

[Zekariya]

Eastern and oriental both mean eastern.

Since there are two seperate Orthodox Communions originating with the Eastern part of the Roman Empire, the two words differentiate them from each other.

Older English documents collectively refer to the non-Western Catholic Churches as Oriental Churches. It seems that today they are now collectively called Eastern Churches.

In personal usage, people call those originating from the Oriental Orthodox, Oriental Catholic and rest are called Eastern Catholic.