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The_Serpent
Guest
What is the origin of the “Glory Be” prayer? It s one of the first you learn, and its obviously old; since we use it in the Rosary. 
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anruari
Guest
Look in the books of
Romans, Galatians, Ephesians, 1Timothy, Hebrews, Peter and Revelations as sources of similar texts in the previous forms (e.g. Glory be to the Father, through the Son, and with the Holy spirit). St. Paul uses these doxologies in almost every one of his epistles in some variation.
Now a small rebuke:
At a risk of lack of charity: can I suggest that sometimes it’s worth entering a question into Google before asking other humans to do that work for you?
A quick search on the term “origin of Glory Be to the father” in Google returned a wikipedia article as the first return
Here is is:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gloria_Patri
In that article it states:
That article is here. It’s a lot more dense.
Romans, Galatians, Ephesians, 1Timothy, Hebrews, Peter and Revelations as sources of similar texts in the previous forms (e.g. Glory be to the Father, through the Son, and with the Holy spirit). St. Paul uses these doxologies in almost every one of his epistles in some variation.
Now a small rebuke:
At a risk of lack of charity: can I suggest that sometimes it’s worth entering a question into Google before asking other humans to do that work for you?
A quick search on the term “origin of Glory Be to the father” in Google returned a wikipedia article as the first return
Here is is:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gloria_Patri
In that article it states:
But the earliest versions of the prayer come straight from the scriptures, (follow the footnote [1] to the Catholic Encyclopedia, under the article headed “Doxology”
That article is here. It’s a lot more dense.
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anruari
Guest
On the relationship to the Rosary: The rosary is Not old by comparison. It evolved over many centuries, and only took it’s current form following a decree of Pope John Paul II in October 2002 with the addition of the Luminous Mysteries.
According the the Catholic Encyclopedia It’s development mostly occurred in the 12th - 15th centuries.
That puts it around 1200 years younger than the Glory-be or the Gloria.
I won’t go into detail here, but its development was mostly for the “Working Monks” who were insufficiently literate to pray the Divine Office, so they would say 150 Pater Nosters, counted on beads while they worked at the hours when the sanctuary monks would recite the 150 psalms in the Divine Office. The Divine Office of the time included reciting all 150 psalms every day, so the monks who did that would have little time for manual labour to feed themselves or maintain their monasteries, and needed the support of the labouring monks.
It then evolved from that to the Rosary we know today.
According the the Catholic Encyclopedia It’s development mostly occurred in the 12th - 15th centuries.
That puts it around 1200 years younger than the Glory-be or the Gloria.
I won’t go into detail here, but its development was mostly for the “Working Monks” who were insufficiently literate to pray the Divine Office, so they would say 150 Pater Nosters, counted on beads while they worked at the hours when the sanctuary monks would recite the 150 psalms in the Divine Office. The Divine Office of the time included reciting all 150 psalms every day, so the monks who did that would have little time for manual labour to feed themselves or maintain their monasteries, and needed the support of the labouring monks.
It then evolved from that to the Rosary we know today.
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tequirk
Guest
Wow, great info on the “evolution” of the rosary. I suppose that since most of the non-religious population was illiterate, just like the “working monks” you mention, that’s probably how the rosary spread more easily outside the monastery walls over the centuries. Thank you!
Yours in Jesus through Mary,
Tom
Yours in Jesus through Mary,
Tom
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anruari
Guest
When I was a young Charasmatic I didn’t understand the Rosary. I was polluted with protestant Ideas about “vain repetition” and “Mary worship”, and the importance of going direct to god with the prayer of ones heart.
Now I understand so much better. The rosary is in fact a meditation. It is based on the scriptures. It is very beautifull. It’s hard to pray the sorrowful mysteries without tears running down my face. (not the safest if I’m driving)
Vocal Prayer Meditation and Contemplation are the 3 basic forms of prayer. The rosary incorporates all 3, with Vocal and Meditation being foremost.
It’s so easy to see it as just a vocal prayer with huge amounts of repetition, but that is to totally miss the point.
My personal prayer life today starts with at least 1 hour of the Divine office. and some reading of the Scriptures. If I have time after that I may pray the Rosary, read other spiritual works, vatican documents or engage in other forms of prayer.
Now I understand so much better. The rosary is in fact a meditation. It is based on the scriptures. It is very beautifull. It’s hard to pray the sorrowful mysteries without tears running down my face. (not the safest if I’m driving)
Vocal Prayer Meditation and Contemplation are the 3 basic forms of prayer. The rosary incorporates all 3, with Vocal and Meditation being foremost.
It’s so easy to see it as just a vocal prayer with huge amounts of repetition, but that is to totally miss the point.
My personal prayer life today starts with at least 1 hour of the Divine office. and some reading of the Scriptures. If I have time after that I may pray the Rosary, read other spiritual works, vatican documents or engage in other forms of prayer.
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ProVobis
Guest
It also came to be a standard part of the Introit, as well as other parts of the Mass which involved the psalms (Asperges Me, Psalm 42, Lavabo).
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The_Serpent
Guest
Thanks! I wouldn’t have believed it was in Wikipedia. Now for some observations. I see in the Wikipedia article; there are a couple of versions of this prayer. And now I find that I have been praying the Anglican version all these years! I was going to bring up another question. Why do we pray “world with out end”? Since we know the world does end some day! But, now I see I have been praying the wrong version all along.
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ProVobis
Guest
Good question. It’s a very curious translation of “per omnia secula seculorum,” to say the least. Other languages seem to preserve the “through all ages of ages” thought.Why do we pray “world with out end”? Since we know the world does end some day! But, now I see I have been praying the wrong version all along.
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ConstantineTG
Guest
Thanks! I wouldn’t have believed it was in Wikipedia. Now for some observations. I see in the Wikipedia article; there are a couple of versions of this prayer. And now I find that I have been praying the Anglican version all these years! I was going to bring up another question. Why do we pray “world with out end”? Since we know the world does end some day! But, now I see I have been praying the wrong version all along.
If I may chime in, the world does not end. Rather the world as it is today will pass away but God will renew all creation, the same way all of us will pass away and will be renewed at the resurrection.
I too wonder how “world without end” came about as in Greek and Slavonic the “unto ages of ages” is the English translation that comes out. Although in Eastern Catholic translation, some would use “forever and ever” or a reverse, “ever and forever”. I wonder if “now unto eternity” would also be an appropriate translation.
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Michael_Mayo
Guest
A short expression of praise to the Trinity from the very early Church. Authors such as Hippolytus (d. 235) and Origen (ca 231) use very similar phrases in praise of the Trinity. The form became fixed to what we have today by the time of the Arian controversies of the 4th century. It is used extensively in the Mass, the Divine Office, and also many other devotions such as the Rosary.
preces-latinae.org/thesaurus/Basics/GloriaPatri.html
More Latin prayers & hymns
preces-latinae.org/Titulus.html
preces-latinae.org/thesaurus/Basics/GloriaPatri.html
More Latin prayers & hymns
preces-latinae.org/Titulus.html
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detoutcoeur
Guest
The Glory Be in French is:
Gloire au Pére, au Fils et au Saint-Esprit. Comme Il était au commencement, maintenant et toujours pour les siècles des siècles. Amen.
*
*Here’s a link to a great site with the Rosary in different languages.
marysrosaries.com/Rosary_prayers_in_different_languages.html
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ProVobis
Guest
Nice site. Thanks.
I’d say that it is because of how Thomas Cranmer, the first protestant Archbishop of Canterbury, translated it for the Book of Common Prayer.
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ProVobis
Guest
It appears that way. Unfortunately his (and Henry VIII’s?) translations were carried forward (imprimatured*) into TLM handmissals as well as other Catholic prayers.
- is this a word?
Probably because they were well known in English before Catholics started printing English prayers. The English Pater Noster comes from Cranmer’s translation which followed William Tyndale’s New Testament as well (it is more accurately “our debts” than “our trespasses”).
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malphono
Guest
FWLIW, the Syriac version includes both the word for “debts” (or “faults” or “transgressions”) and the word for “sins” in the “forgive us” part, but only “debtors” (or “transgressors”) in the second part. The same is actually true in the Arabic version as well. In the modern Hebrew rendering, it’s simply the word for “sins.”
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ProVobis
Guest
I tried to make a case for “debts” (from debita), “sanctified” (from sanctificetur), plural “heavens” (from caelis), “dismiss” (from dimitte) inter alia in the more literal translation but I’ll give you one guess as to where my argument went.
Maybe we could push for the Syriac version.
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