Origin of the word Pagan

[episcogirl]

I want to find out what a “Pagan” really is. I have heard from a historian (who is interested in both secular and religious history) that the origin of the word “pagan” meant countryman…not countryman in the sense of belonging to the same country…but as one who lived far outside of the town. This was in an era when you had cities built in little centers, with a church where everyone in the city would worship. Then, you had some people who lived farther out, and could not regularly make a long journey into the city to go to church. Thus, these “pagans” were “less churched” so to speak than those that attended church regularly and the negative connotation grew out of this. Initially, the reference to pagan supposedly did not have any reference to witchcraft or anything else; this came later. This all came up in a discussion on Halloween as a pagan holiday and the discussion was rather casual and I admit I may have misunderstood.

 

[IanCorrigan]

**I want to find out what a “Pagan” really is. **

The word ‘pagan’ is from the latin ‘pagus’ which means a country district, including country towns and villages. That’s as opposed to ‘urbus’ (like urban) which meant the bigger cities.

We have a few pre-christian uses of paganus, usually used to mean the person was closely tied to the local customs of the place he or she was from. Pre-christian religion often was very locally focused - it was the divine presence in one’s home turf that made it one’s home, and worship through local customs was the same as loyalty to one’s home. So ‘pagani’ was sometimes used to mean ‘devoted to the local ways’, in a complementary sense. It often also meant ‘hick’ in the sense of being local or rural not cosmopolitan.

Christians took up the meaning of “loyal to the old ways”, and so did roman vernacular, as christianity became more popular in the empire. By the 3rd or 4th century ‘Pagan’ was used in the western empire, and ‘Hellene’ was commonly used in the eastern empire - both used to refer to those who held to the pre-christian religions.

**Initially, the reference to pagan supposedly did not have any reference to witchcraft or anything else; this came later. **

Not much later. Christian scripture plainly refers to the worship of the Old Gods as demon-worship. The roman culture had many old tales about dangerous night-time cults that became welded tomemories of the public rites of the Old Ways. On the other hand, the older religions really had been full of divination and magical arts, which were considered part of science, but which were forbidden by the new Christian church as it gained authority.

Pagan has been a term for traditional pre-christian religion pretty much from the earliest uses we can see.
Ian

 

[Zooey]

**I want to find out what a “Pagan” really is. **

The word ‘pagan’ is from the latin ‘pagus’ which means a country district, including country towns and villages. That’s as opposed to ‘urbus’ (like urban) which meant the bigger cities.

We have a few pre-christian uses of paganus, usually used to mean the person was closely tied to the local customs of the place he or she was from. Pre-christian religion often was very locally focused - it was the divine presence in one’s home turf that made it one’s home, and worship through local customs was the same as loyalty to one’s home. So ‘pagani’ was sometimes used to mean ‘devoted to the local ways’, in a complementary sense. It often also meant ‘hick’ in the sense of being local or rural not cosmopolitan.

Christians took up the meaning of “loyal to the old ways”, and so did roman vernacular, as christianity became more popular in the empire. By the 3rd or 4th century ‘Pagan’ was used in the western empire, and ‘Hellene’ was commonly used in the eastern empire - both used to refer to those who held to the pre-christian religions.

**Initially, the reference to pagan supposedly did not have any reference to witchcraft or anything else; this came later. **

Not much later. Christian scripture plainly refers to the worship of the Old Gods as demon-worship. The roman culture had many old tales about dangerous night-time cults that became welded tomemories of the public rites of the Old Ways. On the other hand, the older religions really had been full of divination and magical arts, which were considered part of science, but which were forbidden by the new Christian church as it gained authority.

Pagan has been a term for traditional pre-christian religion pretty much from the earliest uses we can see.
Ian

The Latin teacher’s daughter could never have said this as well as you did, Ian! Thank you!!

 

[episcogirl]

That was very enlightening, thanks!

 

[Mortis]

If you want to find out what a pagan is you should talk to one wont be too hard to find one with internet i wouldn’t think

 

[Hastrman]

If you want to find out what a pagan is you should talk to one wont be too hard to find one with internet i wouldn’t think

Oh, yes it would. Those children are not pagans. They’re playing games.

Unless you think they’d burn their own hand off just to prove a point, like the Roman general captured by the Carthaginians, ever after known as “Sinistrus” (Lefty). Paganism is not this nicey-nice little feel-good religion; paganism is a religion of blood and fire. Read the Aeneid or the Tain Bo Cuailnge, if you want to know how pagans really viewed the world.

 

[Mortis]

Lol blood and fire? You’ve never spoken to a pagan have you? Most wouldn’t hurt a fly because of their “Three fold rule” or whatever it is. And the only fire involved is used to light candles

 

[Steadfast_love]

Hastrman is obviously talking about Pagans from a long time ago. But even so, my experience with (modern) Pagans is that they sometimes put more emphasis on “and do what you will” than the “harm ye none.”

A self avowed witch once cast a “forbidden” spell on me that “could kill me” if anything went wrong, but she decided to gamble with my life anyway. Her goal: that I would continue to rent a one-room cabin from her. Sadly for her, one of her ingredients (a circle of human hair surrounding my cabin) had the opposite effect – I moved out that very day.

 

[Mortis]

Ah well true for the old days, but I would be VERY surprised to find a religion that doesn’t have a bloody past.

Of course there are bad people who are pagan, but again there’s bad people in every belief, shouldn’t judge the majority for the wrongs of the minority

 

[Steadfast_love]

True, for what it’s worth I suspect that the self avowed witch I mentioned was not exactly the sharpest point on the pentacle.

 

[Mortis]

lol could be. Though often I’ve seen people ask for spells that aren’t good and they’re often warned sooner or later it’ll backfire

 

[LDNCatholic]

Hastrman is obviously talking about Pagans from a long time ago. But even so, my experience with (modern) Pagans is that they sometimes put more emphasis on “and do what you will” than the “harm ye none.”

It is predominantly a religion for wannabe rejects and teenage girls who didn’t feel they got enough attention.

At its most sincere it is usually people who want to live in the world of ‘‘Charmed’’ and ‘‘Buffy the Vampire Slayer’’.

As it was said earlier, this pseudo hippy movement, and related things like the extension of Goth subculture, is not true paganism, which was a number of bloodthirsty and vicious faiths which I for one am glad have not survived to the present day.

 

[mmm1]

Ok, stupid question, but I’m just curious. Isn’t the pentacle a satanic symbol? Pagan said he & most pagans weren’t satanic, but he seemed quite fond of his pentacle. What exactly is it & how is it used?

 

[LDNCatholic]

Ok, stupid question, but I’m just curious. Isn’t the pentacle a satanic symbol? Pagan said he & most pagans weren’t satanic, but he seemed quite fond of his pentacle. What exactly is it & how is it used?

Pentacle is just a five pointed star. ‘‘Satanics’’ tend to use an ‘‘inverted pentacle’’ i.e two points up rather than one point up. It is a sacred symbol among wiccans though I have no idea just how historical it is.

 

[mmm1]

Pentacle is just a five pointed star. ‘‘Satanics’’ tend to use an ‘‘inverted pentacle’’ i.e two points up rather than one point up. It is a sacred symbol among wiccans though I have no idea just how historical it is.

Thanks…

 

[Mortis]

LDNCatholic that is not even slightly true, there are a lot of very mature people who call themselves pagan, I have heard of many teenagers choosing to be pagans because thats just the way they feel, some just don’t agree with other religions.

All the pagans I know dislike people who take programs like “charmed” and “buffy the vampire slayer” seriously, being a pagan has NOTHING to do with either of these programs.

Wicca is one pagan path and is quite the opposite of “bloodthirsty” I say again that all religions are bound to have blood in their pasts. look at christianity and the crusades

 

[LDNCatholic]

Thanks…

No worries, there are others more knowledgeable on the subject than myself, one of them will probably turn up before long (I know there are a few ex pagans here, and at least one very knowledgeable ex satanic)

 

[LDNCatholic]

Wicca is one pagan path and is quite the opposite of “bloodthirsty” I say again that all religions are bound to have blood in their pasts. look at christianity and the crusades

Wicca is a ‘‘path’’ invented in the mid 50s i believe Also the majority of its following are tennage girls, or ‘‘found’’ it as teenage girls. Those that aren’t, well they are the exception, not the rule.

 

[Mortis]

So they found it as teenagers. they have to find it sometime dont they? what, are they supposed to wait until they’re fifty? It seems a good path to choose for teenagers as those that follow it are usually very kind and pleasant, and teenagers have a lot of problems that they can turn to such people for help with

 

[LDNCatholic]

So they found it as teenagers. they have to find it sometime dont they? what, are they supposed to wait until they’re fifty? It seems a good path to choose for teenagers as those that follow it are usually very kind and pleasant, and teenagers have a lot of problems that they can turn to such people for help with

I actually forgot another sizeable minority amongst the ‘‘pagans’’, the norse worshippers, wotan or whatever. A LOT of them (and don’t tell me it’s a lie I have made it my business to investigate these people) are involved to some degree, with the white power movement.

Teenage girls are attracted because the ‘‘magic’’ offers them an immediate solution to their problems, by running away into a fantasy world etc.

True, original paganism, was nothing like this.