Original sin -A blessing in disguise ?

[joseie]

Much is discussed about the original sin that was commmited by Adam.
What exactly was it, why it resulted in such terrible consequences to humans ( for it is taught that evil,sickness, death etc are results of this sin and in order to save the man from this sin transmitted from generations to generations God himself had to take birth in this world ) etc. are still debated . But I wonder why its positive side is not looked into.Just consider this: If Adam had no sinned;
1.There would not have been death which means everybody right from Adam till now would have been alive. What a terrible situation !
2.Man would have been naked without any feeling of shame.No question of cloths.Even a more terrible situation!
3.Man would have been absolutely lazy without the need to do or to know any work except plucking the fruits.
4.Since women will give birth without any labour pain ,people will multiply like any thing since labour pain is a significant factor prompting women against conceiving repeatedly . Also no worry about food or clothes !This ,plus no death means an absolutely horrible condition !
5.We would not have the opportunity to experience the love of our saviour Jesus Christ and to know God through him.
In short ,a view can be taken that Adam did not do that much damage to humans as made it out , by commmiting the original sin. The present situation is practically a heaven as compared to the situation arising had Adam not done it.To go a step further can we say that Adam committed the sin (or was he made to commit ? ) for the ultimate good of men ?

 

[simpleas]

If Adam and Eve had not sinned, we would be in heaven.

So none of what you describe would be a reality I don’t think.

I can not truly envision what living in the garden of Eden would be like, it seems like a totally different place on earth, that once existed.

Humans that would be able to control the lower appetite, I can imagine peace in all things

But the tree of knowledge of good and evil would still be there? Was it only a rule for Adam and Eve, and of course since they broke the rule and ate from the tree, we suffer in some ways. If they hadn’t eaten, would their children have been given the same rule to live by? (don’t eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil)

In recent times I’m hearing the original sin now thought of as the original blessing,but that’s another story!

 

[joseie]

“If Adam and Eve had not sinned, we would be in heaven”

How? Why ? They were to live in Eden only. Every thing was created for their use and they were to multiply and live there(gen 1:25-27) .No promise was made that after some time they will be taken to heaven.

 

[Vic_Taltrees_UK]

“O happy fault!”

Some people think Eden was a quite wide area of the earth.

Gen 1:1 and Gen ch 2 deal with many acts of creation. If as Stephen Oppenheimer together with a number of other scholars has intuited based on a sober interpretation of many stories, oceanography, genetics (his own original field) and other sciences that the remainder of ch 1 deals with the reappearance of some earth after the third from last of the biggest floods (“covering all the earth” means most of the thickly inhabited parts) (bigger floods than the bank-breaking rivers beloved of footnote compilers are better science than is often let on), Adam and Eve are representative people of that new society.

It’s interesting that among their sins, we have the first story of wife-blaming.

Effectively humanity could no longer remember further back than that time. Hence concepts around the nature of man are hung on them like aides-memoires or bullet-points.

It was probably within around the last 20,000 years or so. Humanity is sometimes said to be 120,000 years old or a bit longer.

Hence we aren’t unfairly punished for their misdoing, it’s a way of saying we are human and we are blessed with the faculty to walk the knife edge. Not-so-dumb creatures.

Babel may have been under what is now the Sunda Sea. Like all colonial names, the name has migrated, west (probably to Afghanistan before Babylon).

It’s interesting that the Bible tells us of the “new Earth” and of various layers of “kingdom”. I think that some people will be in heaven and on earth at the same time. If we strive to help each other grow in fruitfulness, we may gain a crown as St Paul hoped.

 

[1neophyte]

Plus, we wouldn’t have knowledge of good and evil, and that’s a good thing to know. I mean, everyone was punished because Adam and Eve didn’t know and unwittingly ate the fruit.

And…,would anyone be here at all if Eve hadn’t eaten that fruit?
I venture to think not. I don’t recall Adam and Eve procreating* before* the fruit turning point or knowing what sex was.
I think they were…chaste.

.

Why would they be chaste if God commanded them to multiply?

 

[simpleas]

“If Adam and Eve had not sinned, we would be in heaven”

How? Why ? They were to live in Eden only. Every thing was created for their use and they were to multiply and live there(gen 1:25-27) .No promise was made that after some time they will be taken to heaven.

If they had obeyed God they would have been able to eat from the tree of life and live forever, and this would have been passed on to their off spring. Much the same way as O.S is passed on I would think.

Yet eating from the tree of life and living forever in the garden, which is mostly called ‘paradise’ would be a sort of heaven on earth. Seeing God I think would be part of this as they would be free from sin.

 

[joseie]

If they had obeyed God they would have been able to eat from the tree of life and live forever, and this would have been passed on to their off spring. Much the same way as O.S is passed on I would think.

Yet eating from the tree of life and living forever in the garden, which is mostly called ‘paradise’ would be a sort of heaven on earth. Seeing God I think would be part of this as they would be free from sin.

I was only talking about the life in such a ‘Paradise’ !All the 5 points I mentioned in the first post are correctly relevant and applicable there.

 

[1neophyte]

Did they have kids?

.

I guess I can’t argue with logic like that. You must be right. Sex must be a direct consequence of the fall, since Genesis doesn’t mention them having kids. God’s intention must have been that they be the only human beings to ever exist. What a mess this is.

 

[seagal]

Not a blessing in disguise so much as God bringing good out of evil.

 

[simpleas]

I was only talking about the life in such a ‘Paradise’ !All the 5 points I mentioned in the first post are correctly relevant and applicable there.

And I meant that living in heaven would be nothing like you described in the OP because we would’ve been sinless.
There was no shame before the sin.

Maybe we all have different ideas as to what a sinless dwelling would look/work like for humans.

 

[joseie]

Not a blessing in disguise so much as God bringing good out of evil.

OK. But now consider whether it was really an ‘evil’ thing did by Adam.Something which brings only good results and nothing bad can be called evil ?

 

[1neophyte]

OK. But now consider whether it was really an ‘evil’ thing did by Adam.Something which brings only good results and nothing bad can be called evil ?

Was it really only good results?

 

[GEddie]

1. Do you really think being dead is preferable to living in a crowded world? Not to mention, with all of those MINDS ALIVE, we would have invented long-range star travel by now and be taking vacation tours to those far-off planets we can now only imagine. Overcrowding of the Earth would not be an issue.

Delivering the human head to the earthworms is not just hideous, it is a hideous WASTE!

1. In a world without sin, shame or illness, what could at all be wrong with being naked??? If God meant for us to be naked we’d have been born that way!

ICXC NIKA

 

[joseie]

Was it really only good results?

My whole contention in the OP was that the original sin brought good results .The situation otherwise would have been too horrible to imagine as pointed out.That we got our saviour is the most glorious thing.

 

[1neophyte]

My whole contention in the OP was that the original sin brought good results .The situation otherwise would have been too horrible to imagine as pointed out.That we got our saviour is the most glorious thing.

Well of course it brought good results, but not ONLY good results. If a child’s father dies in a car accident, and the child then receives $10 million in life insurance benefits, it cannot be said that the crash brought about only good results.

 

[joseie]

1. Do you really think being dead is preferable to living in a crowded world? Not to mention, with all of those MINDS ALIVE, we would have invented long-range star travel by now and be taking vacation tours to those far-off planets we can now only imagine. Overcrowding of the Earth would not be an issue.

Delivering the human head to the earthworms is not just hideous, it is a hideous WASTE!

1. In a world without sin, shame or illness, what could at all be wrong with being naked??? If God meant for us to be naked we’d have been born that way!

ICXC NIKA

1.Apply the situation of no death since 3 or 4 generations of you own ancestors. You will agree with me.
2.Absence of our four fathers now is the impediment for long range star travel ?

 

[youngsterat16]

Original sin was not a blessing. God is the blessing. What He is doing is a blessing. Original sin is not a blessing because we would all go to hell. The blessing is that God is a loving God and sent Jesus to free us from hell. God didn’t intend humanity to go down the path of sin. Why He created us in the first place is a complete mystery. but if Adam and Eve had not sinned, none of us would go down the path to hell.

The “paradise” concept is a mystery as well. no it did not directly say anything about that in the bible. This is how I think of it. God created Man in his image. So wouldn’t that imply that he would make our home in Heaven’s image as well? Again, why He created Earth in the first place is a mystery we won’t know until we see Him face-to-face. Everything was created for us. I cannot say how it all works. I’m not God. God created it though, and He creates all the is Good. not Evil. My two-cents is Eden was the purest form of Earth and was very much like heaven. God gave the best to us. I cannot say what a sinless Earth would be like. Humans are destined for heaven. WE always were. So Adam and Eve were destined as well.

Keep in mind though, the book of Genesis came about through oral tradition. So we can never know what truely happend and cannot take it literally. I have more I can say to help clarify things but I do not have time right now. I’ll respond later tis week if i get time.

 

[GEddie]

1.Apply the situation of no death since 3 or 4 generations of you own ancestors. You will agree with me.
2.Absence of our four fathers now is the impediment for long range star travel ?

1a. I don’t think so. I don’t even know those people, so how can I agree that having them around is worse than being dead?

1b.). More human life = more minds = more inventions. More invention means more rapid progression.

ICXC NIKA

 

[joseie]

Well of course it brought good results, but not ONLY good results. If a child’s father dies in a car accident, and the child then receives $10 million in life insurance benefits, it cannot be said that the crash brought about only good results.

Not comparable .If the child would have been in a more re terrible situation if the father was alive death of the father is a blessing in disguise

 

[1neophyte]

Not comparable .If the child would have been in a more re terrible situation if the father was alive death of the father is a blessing in disguise

So you’re saying that God put Adam and Eve in a “terrible” situation, and their only way to avoid certain peril was disobedience and sin? I’m in total agreement that we’re better off having sinned and been forgiven than never having sinned at all, because it has brought us into an intimacy with God and a depth of awareness of his goodness that would not have otherwise been possible, but you’ve gone completely sideways here.