Original Sin - Catholic and Eastern Orthodox

[toby42]

Hello, all,

I am a ‘protestant’ (though I hate using that word) investigating the doctrines of the RCC in order to rightly understand in order to perhaps join her ranks. I was perusing the OCA’s website and come upon this statement regarding original sin, and was hoping someone could explain to me whether it is accurate and perhaps give me a better understanding of the Catholic understanding of Original Sin:

Concerning the original—or “first”—sin, that commited by Adam and Eve, Orthodoxy believes that, while everyone bears the consequences of the first sin, the foremost of which is death, only Adam and Eve are guilty of that sin. Roman Catholicism teaches that everyone bears not only the consequence, but also the guilt, of that sin.

So first, does the Catholic Church teach that we all bear the guilt of that original sin? If so, can you please explain how this affects us?

Secondly, I could use some help understanding the Catholic teaching on Original Sin. I thought that the stain of original sin was that we are all born with an innate inclination to sin… which I later found to be defined as concupiscence, not Original Sin. So if concupiscence is the inclination to sin, and this remains after Baptism, what was the stain or original sin? I’ve read the catechism and see that it says that it’s the ‘wound that deprives man of original holiness and justice’ (CCC 417) but can you explain this a little bit more? What is original sin, how does it affect us, and how is it removed at Baptism, particularly with an infant?

Big Question, I know… I hope you can help me out.

Thanks!

 

[Todd977]

The Baltimore Catechism, Questions 52-62, touch on Original Sin.

 

[grannymh]

Hello, all,

I am a ‘protestant’ (though I hate using that word) investigating the doctrines of the RCC in order to rightly understand in order to perhaps join her ranks. I was perusing the OCA’s website and come upon this statement regarding original sin, and was hoping someone could explain to me whether it is accurate and perhaps give me a better understanding of the Catholic understanding of Original Sin:
Concerning the original—or “first”—sin, that commited by Adam and Eve, Orthodoxy believes that, while everyone bears the consequences of the first sin, the foremost of which is death, only Adam and Eve are guilty of that sin. Roman Catholicism teaches that everyone bears not only the consequence, but also the guilt, of that sin.
So first, does the Catholic Church teach that we all bear the guilt of that original sin? If so, can you please explain how this affects us?

Secondly, I could use some help understanding the Catholic teaching on Original Sin. I thought that the stain of original sin was that we are all born with an innate inclination to sin… which I later found to be defined as concupiscence, not Original Sin. So if concupiscence is the inclination to sin, and this remains after Baptism, what was the stain or original sin? I’ve read the catechism and see that it says that it’s the ‘wound that deprives man of original holiness and justice’ (CCC 417) but can you explain this a little bit more? What is original sin, how does it affect us, and how is it removed at Baptism, particularly with an infant?

Big Question, I know… I hope you can help me out.

Thanks!

In my personal opinion, the use of the word “sin” needs the context in order to understand its various meanings. Paragraphs 404-405,* Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition* is a good place to start learning. It is also very important to study the first three chapters of Genesis. Catholic doctrines flow from these informative chapters. Genesis 2: 15-17 explains Original Sin.

Post 2 mentioned the Baltimore Catechism which technically is a local Catechism that has been replaced by the current universal Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition. You might find that the Baltimore Catechism is easier to read. In any case, I will help you with the “language.”

Regarding CCC 417. Adam and Eve began life in the State of Original Holiness and Justice. The current term is the State of Sanctifying Grace. CCC Glossary Sanctifying Grace, page 898, explains this term. When we study Adam, we find him in a state of friendship between humanity and Divinity. CCC 396 and CCC 1730 give us the basic facts of this relationship. Adam needs to freely obey his Creator. When Adam disobeys, he shatters the relationship. This broken relationship is known as Original Sin. From what I observe on CAF, there are questions about Adam’s human nature.

My suggestion is to pick only one question. Using the truth of that question, I think it may be possible to build a path to your other questions. When I learned about Original Sin in Catholic grade school, it was like a logical series of events which eventually led to Jesus Christ. Back then, we did not refer to Scripture. Landing on CAF, I had to actually read all three beginning chapters of Genesis. They are amazing! If I were to pick a beginning point, I would choose Genesis 1: 27.

If you wish, we could start exploring Original Sin either from your most urgent question or from one of the events in those three beginning chapters.

Note. I am not familiar with Eastern Orthodox Faith. However, if you have a particular teaching, most likely I can evaluate it using the Catholic Church teaching as a comparison…

---

The human person is worthy of profound respect.

 

[rcwitness]

Concerning the original—or “first”—sin, that commited by Adam and Eve, Orthodoxy believes that, while everyone bears the consequences of the first sin, the foremost of which is death, only Adam and Eve are guilty of that sin. Roman Catholicism teaches that everyone bears not only the consequence, but also the guilt, of that sin.

If we suffer the consequence of that sin (which is the lack of perfect trust and sacrificial faith in obedience) why would we not feel the guilt of it? We should not look at it as though Adam and Eve made that mistake, but I might not have. No, we are all guilty of Original Sin, because all of us fall short of Godliness. I really understand that the guilt goes with it, more that just the consequence. We aren’t innocent victims of Adam and Eve. We are their offspring. Until the New Adam and Eve appeared, and we have reconciliation through Him who did have perfect trust and sacrificial odedience.

What is original sin, how does it affect us, and how is it removed at Baptism, particularly with an infant?

Big Question, I know… I hope you can help me out.

Thanks!

Baptism removes the consequence and guilt of sin. We no longer should feel shame from fault, as long as we have turned from continuing in it. Jesus paid the price and restores to us peace and joy with reconciliation to our God.

 

[fhansen]

Hello, all,

I am a ‘protestant’ (though I hate using that word) investigating the doctrines of the RCC in order to rightly understand in order to perhaps join her ranks. I was perusing the OCA’s website and come upon this statement regarding original sin, and was hoping someone could explain to me whether it is accurate and perhaps give me a better understanding of the Catholic understanding of Original Sin:

Concerning the original—or “first”—sin, that commited by Adam and Eve, Orthodoxy believes that, while everyone bears the consequences of the first sin, the foremost of which is death, only Adam and Eve are guilty of that sin. Roman Catholicism teaches that everyone bears not only the consequence, but also the guilt, of that sin.

So first, does the Catholic Church teach that we all bear the guilt of that original sin? If so, can you please explain how this affects us?

Secondly, I could use some help understanding the Catholic teaching on Original Sin. I thought that the stain of original sin was that we are all born with an innate inclination to sin… which I later found to be defined as concupiscence, not Original Sin. So if concupiscence is the inclination to sin, and this remains after Baptism, what was the stain or original sin? I’ve read the catechism and see that it says that it’s the ‘wound that deprives man of original holiness and justice’ (CCC 417) but can you explain this a little bit more? What is original sin, how does it affect us, and how is it removed at Baptism, particularly with an infant?

Big Question, I know… I hope you can help me out.

Thanks!

There’s a difference between the act of committing the original sin, which Adam & Eve did, and the state of original sin that all humanity inherited.From the CCC:

**404 How did the sin of Adam become the sin of all his descendants? the whole human race is in Adam “as one body of one man”.293 By this “unity of the human race” all men are implicated in Adam’s sin, as all are implicated in Christ’s justice. Still, the transmission of original sin is a mystery that we cannot fully understand. But we do know by Revelation that Adam had received original holiness and justice not for himself alone, but for all human nature. By yielding to the tempter, Adam and Eve committed a personal sin, but this sin affected the human nature that they would then transmit in a fallen state.294 It is a sin which will be transmitted by propagation to all mankind, that is, by the transmission of a human nature deprived of original holiness and justice. and that is why original sin is called “sin” only in an analogical sense: it is a sin “contracted” and not “committed” - a state and not an act.

405 Although it is proper to each individual,295 original sin does not have the character of a personal fault in any of Adam’s descendants. It is a deprivation of original holiness and justice, but human nature has not been totally corrupted: it is wounded in the natural powers proper to it, subject to ignorance, suffering and the dominion of death, and inclined to sin - an inclination to evil that is called concupiscence". Baptism, by imparting the life of Christ’s grace, erases original sin and turns a man back towards God, but the consequences for nature, weakened and inclined to evil, persist in man and summon him to spiritual battle.**

 

[grannymh]

If we suffer the consequence of that sin (which is the lack of perfect trust and sacrificial faith in obedience) why would we not feel the guilt of it? We should not look at it as though Adam and Eve made that mistake, but I might not have. No, we are all guilty of Original Sin, because all of us fall short of Godliness. I really understand that the guilt goes with it, more that just the consequence. We aren’t innocent victims of Adam and Eve. We are their offspring. Until the New Adam and Eve appeared, and we have reconciliation through Him who did have perfect trust and sacrificial odedience.

Baptism removes the consequence and guilt of sin. We no longer should feel shame from fault, as long as we have turned from continuing in it. Jesus paid the price and restores to us peace and joy with reconciliation to our God.

Common sense should tell us that we are not the original first person on earth. Therefore, we cannot be guilty of the disobedience which occurred at the beginning of human history.

Certainly, it should be obvious that members of the human species would be affected by the first human nature which was wounded.

 

[Wesrock]

Augustine spoke of guilt, but it’s more that we bear the consequences of original sin. There is no personal guilt. The RCC catechism speaks of original sin costing us the original holiness and justice we were created with. It’s technically more of a deprivation, not a stain, even if we speak that way sometimes.

 

[dvdjs]

So first, does the Catholic Church teach that we all bear the guilt of that original sin? If so, can you please explain how this affects us?

Secondly, I could use some help understanding the Catholic teaching on Original Sin. I thought that the stain of original sin was that we are all born with an innate inclination to sin… which I later found to be defined as concupiscence, not Original Sin. So if concupiscence is the inclination to sin, and this remains after Baptism, what was the stain or original sin? I’ve read the catechism and see that it says that it’s the ‘wound that deprives man of original holiness and justice’ (CCC 417) but can you explain this a little bit more? What is original sin, how does it affect us, and how is it removed at Baptism, particularly with an infant?

Here is a link that answers your second question:
newadvent.org/cathen/11312a.htm

(3) The absence of sanctifying grace in the new-born child is also an effect of the first sin, for Adam, having received holiness and justice from God, lost it not only for himself but also for us (loc. cit., can. ii). If he has lost it for us we were to have received it from him at our birth with the other prerogatives of our race. Therefore the absence of sanctifying grace in a child is a real privation, it is the want of something that should have been in him according to the Divine plan. If this favour is not merely something physical but is something in the moral order, if it is holiness, its privation may be called a sin. But sanctifying grace is holiness and is so called by the Council of Trent, because holiness consists in union with God, and grace unites us intimately with God. Moral goodness consists in this, that our action is according to the moral law, but grace is a deification, as the Fathers say, a perfect conformity with God who is the first rule of all morality. (See GRACE.) Sanctifying grace therefore enters into the moral order, not as an act that passes but as a permanent tendency which exists even when the subject who possesses it does not act; it is a turning towards God, conversio ad Deum. Consequently the privation of this grace, even without any other act, would be a stain, a moral deformity, a turning away from God, aversio a Deo, and this character is not found in any other effect of the fault of Adam. This privation, therefore, is the hereditary stain.

This privation carries with it a liability. So while we are not “guilty” of the ancestral sin, its consequences are grave. The fate of those who die before this stain has been cleansed has been discussed throughout church history, but on this matter both Catholic and Orthodox churches teach simply that we trust in the mercy of God.

The theologoumenon of limbo, btw, traces back to St Gregory Nazianzen, and the idea is still found in the synaxarion read in EO churches in All Souls Saturday.

One ought to know that baptized infants who die shall
enjoy the bliss of Paradise; those not baptized and those
of the heathen shall go neither to the place of bliss nor to Hades