Original Sin explanation

[Vico]

Guilherme1:

I mainly want to know if Original Sin affected the entire planet

I believe Catholic teaching is that Mary (this bit is not Christian teaching, by the way, but like all nice Jewish girls - and not nice Jewish girls for that matter) was born without it.

In other words, ‘original sin’ is a Christian thing - just thought I’d mention that.

Well, actually the Virgin Mary was conceived without the stain of the sin of Adam. The stain is being deprived of grace at conception. And we do not know exactly when the first parents were constituted with grace except that it was before their disobedience (so may not have been from creation). So practically all descendants suffer as given in Genesis 3:

15 I will put enmities between thee and the woman, and thy seed and her seed: she shall crush thy head, and thou shalt lie in wait for her heel.
16 To the woman also he said: I will multiply thy sorrows, and thy conceptions: in sorrow shalt thou bring forth children, and thou shalt be under thy husband’s power, and he shall have dominion over thee.
17 And to Adam he said: Because thou hast hearkened to the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldst not eat, cursed is the earth in thy work; with labour and toil shalt thou eat thereof all the days of thy life.
18 Thorns and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herbs of the earth.
19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread till thou return to the earth, out of which thou wast taken: for dust thou art, and into dust thou shalt return.

 

[Gorgias]

Childhood rebellion against parents is a natural and necessary part of human development so we can grow into self-sufficient adults who can think for themselves.

In a surprising way, you seem to have recapitulated the serpent’s argument in the “Fall of Adam” narrative. Congratulations?

 

[JMMJ]

I don’t believe in the Adam and Eve story.

 

[Gorgias]

I don’t believe in the Adam and Eve story.

You don’t believe that the story exists? And that you just summarized the argument of the satan character in the story?

Fascinating…

 

[JMMJ]

Of course the story exists. That is what it is. A big story. I don’t believe it is true.

I believe in psychology.

Your congratulations don’t mean anything to me.

 

[Gorgias]

Of course the story exists. That is what it is. A big story.

You might want to know that the Church teaches that it’s figurative, too. True, mind you – but not a historical account.

I believe in psychology.

If that’s your “higher power”, I feel badly for you.

Your congratulations don’t mean anything to me.

You don’t believe in them either, eh?

 

[JMMJ]

You might want to know that the Church teaches that it’s figurative, too. True, mind you – but not a historical account.

But the “original sin” concept the Church teaches is not something Catholics or the Church consider figurative.

Please know teaching small children that they arrive into the world as damaged is a horrible thing to do. Lots of people hurt and then actually are damaged for the rest of their lives from being taught that and all that goes with it. And please don’t say it isn’t what the Church teaches. It is exactly what it teaches.

To point out how harmful it can be is being truthful.

Maybe try not to be so snarky. Charity and kindness is much better.

 

[Gorgias]

But the “original sin” concept the Church teaches is not something Catholics or the Church consider figurative.

And? So?

I merely pointed out that you’d accurately parroted the arguments of the serpent in the story.

Please know teaching small children that they arrive into the world as damaged is a horrible thing to do.

Not “damaged”. Just “not perfect”, and that applies to each of us.

Teaching small children that they’re perfect, and then letting them find out on their own that you lied is a pretty horrible thing, too.

Maybe try not to be so snarky. Charity and kindness is much better.

Truth is charitable.

 

[EugeneCharles]

a result of original sins with no countervailing prospect of eternal life.

Hello! Probably, animals were not condemned by God and they don’t suffer as a result of original sin because they don’t have knowledge or free will to think and they don’t sinned against the LORD. You may thought of the serpent in the Genesis but in my own perspective, it is the demon not the snake being condemned by God.

 

[JMMJ]

Teaching small children that they’re perfect, and then letting them find out on their own that you lied is a pretty horrible thing, too.

No, friend. That is not the teaching, and it is not the way the teaching is taught. I believe you know that.

I think we are done here.

Truth is not a pass to be snarky or unkind.

 

[EugeneCharles]

I don’t think the Church teaches this. It is a harmful concept. Childhood rebellion against parents is a natural and necessary part of human development so we can grow into self-sufficient adults who can think for themselves.

Hello! Maybe what @Mmarco said is true because it is against the 10 Commandments to disobey our parents. It’s natural to rebel against one’s parents but God doesn’t want us to disobey them because He gave us parents who will guide us and for us to follow. But of course, they are not always correct or they are not perfect, yet, God wants us to obey them.

 

[Gorgias]

No, friend. That is not the teaching, and it is not the way the teaching is taught. I believe you know that.

It kinda is, and I’m surprised you don’t know that:

418 As a result of original sin, human nature is weakened in its powers, subject to ignorance, suffering and the domination of death, and inclined to sin (this inclination is called “concupiscence”).

The Church teaches that we don’t have perfect intellect or will, that there’s suffering and death, and that we sin.

How’s that untrue?

Truth is not a pass to be snarky or unkind.

Kindness is not a pass to be untruthful.

 

[JMMJ]

Kindness is not a pass to be untruthful.

Of course not. Who said it was?

 

[EugeneCharles]

Of course the story exists. That is what it is. A big story. I don’t believe it is true.

Most Bible scholars believe that it is a myth inspired by the creation story of Israel’s neighboring country like Babylon, but still a story which narrates how God created humans out of love and how they disobeyed Him.

I am also a fan of psychology but also rely in Theology

 

[JMMJ]

It kinda is, and I’m surprised you don’t know that:

I know full-well, and better than most, what the Church teaches. I disagree with it.

 

[JMMJ]

I am also a fan of psychology but also rely in Theology

Yes. I see that. I don’t rely on theology.

 

[EugeneCharles]

It’s okay… There’s no problem with that

I know full-well, and better than most, what the Church teaches. I disagree with it.

What @Gorgias said is true even with other religions, they will say almost the similar thing but we may found it hard to accept that we sinned against God if we don’t rely on theology (and humble ourselves).

Are you an atheist by any chance?

 

[JMMJ]

I am what most would consider agnostic. I do subscribe to some Church teachings, mostly those with regards to charity and looking out for eachother.

I don’t really believe in the concept of sin, as taught by the Church. That includes original sin, too, of course. It doesn’t mean I believe we aren’t prone to falling and struggling.

 

[Gorgias]

Most Bible scholars believe that it is a myth inspired by the creation story of Israel’s neighboring country like Babylon

Actually, that would be the creation narratives (Genesis 1 and 2), not the “Fall of Man” narrative (Genesis 3).

I know full-well, and better than most, what the Church teaches.

I literally quoted the Church’s teaching, and it’s not what you claim it is. But hey, maybe psychology has taught you differently!

Yes. I see that. I don’t rely on theology.

Ahh, but if you only would accurately represent what Catholic theology teaches, you’d be so further ahead in the game!

 

[EugeneCharles]

Ah… I see…

But hey, maybe psychology has taught you differently!

Yeah this is so true… And you are an agnostic, so there’s a possibility that other beliefs impliments different teacjings to you.

I don’t really believe in the concept of sin, as taught by the Church. That includes original sin, too, of course. It doesn’t mean I believe we aren’t prone to falling and struggling.

I’m just going to pray that God may enlighten you because it could be hard to convince you. Please also pray for yourself, so God can help you and guide you to enlightenment…