Original Sin: Guilty

[Epistemes]

Why are we, generations later, *guilty *of mankind’s first sin in addition to suffering such sin’s consequences (death)?

 

[1ke]

vatican.va/archive/catechism/p1s2c1p7.htm#III

404 How did the sin of Adam become the sin of all his descendants? The whole human race is in Adam “as one body of one man”.293 By this “unity of the human race” all men are implicated in Adam’s sin, as all are implicated in Christ’s justice. Still, the transmission of original sin is a mystery that we cannot fully understand. But we do know by Revelation that Adam had received original holiness and justice not for himself alone, but for all human nature. By yielding to the tempter, Adam and Eve committed a personal sin, but this sin affected the human nature that they would then transmit in a fallen state.294 It is a sin which will be transmitted by propagation to all mankind, that is, by the transmission of a human nature deprived of original holiness and justice. And that is why original sin is called “sin” only in an analogical sense: it is a sin “contracted” and not “committed” - a state and not an act.

405 Although it is proper to each individual,295 original sin does not have the character of a personal fault in any of Adam’s descendants. It is a deprivation of original holiness and justice, but human nature has not been totally corrupted: it is wounded in the natural powers proper to it, subject to ignorance, suffering and the dominion of death, and inclined to sin - an inclination to evil that is called concupiscence". Baptism, by imparting the life of Christ’s grace, erases original sin and turns a man back towards God, but the consequences for nature, weakened and inclined to evil, persist in man and summon him to spiritual battle.

406 The Church’s teaching on the transmission of original sin was articulated more precisely in the fifth century, especially under the impulse of St. Augustine’s reflections against Pelagianism, and in the sixteenth century, in opposition to the Protestant Reformation. Pelagius held that man could, by the natural power of free will and without the necessary help of God’s grace, lead a morally good life; he thus reduced the influence of Adam’s fault to bad example. The first Protestant reformers, on the contrary, taught that original sin has radically perverted man and destroyed his freedom; they identified the sin inherited by each man with the tendency to evil (concupiscentia), which would be insurmountable. The Church pronounced on the meaning of the data of Revelation on original sin especially at the second Council of Orange (529)296 and at the Council of Trent (1546).297

 

[By_His_Mercy]

Why are we, generations later, *guilty *of mankind’s first sin in addition to suffering such sin’s consequences (death)?

It seems like we really are…

Psalm 51:5 “Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity,
And in sin my mother conceived me.”

 

[Epistemes]

Unfortunately no one has directly addressed the issue of *guilt *which is implicated in how we understand original sin.

Imagine, if you will, that one of your close relatives was a mass murderer. He committed many serious crimes for which he was found guilty * and perhaps even admitted his guilt publicly. You, as his or her son or brother or cousin, may very well bear the consequences of his action -* people may shy away from you or say, “Watch out for him -* he comes from a family of mass murderers.” Your name may be tainted, or you may face some other forms of discrimination as a consequence of your relative’s sin. You, however, are not personally guilty of his or her sin.

 

[promethius]

Unfortunately no one has directly addressed the issue of *guilt *which is implicated in how we understand original sin.

Imagine, if you will, that one of your close relatives was a mass murderer. He committed many serious crimes for which he was found guilty * and perhaps even admitted his guilt publicly. You, as his or her son or brother or cousin, may very well bear the consequences of his action -* people may shy away from you or say, “Watch out for him -* he comes from a family of mass murderers.” Your name may be tainted, or you may face some other forms of discrimination as a consequence of your relative’s sin. You, however, are not personally guilty of his or her sin.

Here’s how I see it: have you ever sinned? Then you would have eaten from the tree too. Hence, you’re wrapped in with original sin as much as anyone else.

 

[davidv]

Based on this definition of “guilty”:

having committed an offense, crime, violation, or wrong, esp. against moral or penal law; justly subject to a certain accusation or penalty; culpable:

American Heritage Dictionary​

I would say the your original statement is incorrect. We are not “guilty” of original sin, as it is not our personal sin. We inherit the effects, which is death and the tendency to sin, of original sin.

 

[By_His_Mercy]

Unfortunately no one has directly addressed the issue of *guilt *which is implicated in how we understand original sin.

Imagine, if you will, that one of your close relatives was a mass murderer. He committed many serious crimes for which he was found guilty * and perhaps even admitted his guilt publicly. You, as his or her son or brother or cousin, may very well bear the consequences of his action -* people may shy away from you or say, “Watch out for him -* he comes from a family of mass murderers.” Your name may be tainted, or you may face some other forms of discrimination as a consequence of your relative’s sin. You, however, are not personally guilty of his or her sin.

But I wasn’t in the loins of my relative when he/she sinned. But we all were physically in Adam’s loins when he did. We were part of his body…we were “in Adam”.

 

[1ke]

Unfortunately no one has directly addressed the issue of *guilt *which is implicated in how we understand original sin.

Yes, I did address this directly. See the Catechism posted above.

 

[Epistemes]

Yes, I did address this directly. See the Catechism posted above.

I have read it several times now and do not see where it address the subject of guilt but rather consequences.

 

[By_His_Mercy]

I have read it several times now and do not see where it address the subject of guilt but rather consequences.

I think it’s at the end of 404…“And that is why original sin is called “sin” only in an analogical sense: it is a sin “contracted” and not “committed” - a state and not an act.”

It’s not something you did (committed), but you’ve contracted the guilt of sin. I think that’s what is meant here. I don’t think this is talking about our sin nature (concupiscience) which is a consequence of Adam’s sin. I think it’s talking about the guilt of sin.

Anybody else?? Am I right or wrong?

 

[gookykookypig]

Guilt is not always something that we consciously know, for according to the courts, we can be guilty of homicide when we kill a person even when we are in the influence of morphine.

Though originally we did not do what Adam and Eve had done, we had worse guilt with our recent sins nowadays. Original sin made us a marked man, but our sins make us masked and veiled.

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

Why are we, generations later, *guilty *of mankind’s first sin in addition to suffering such sin’s consequences (death)?

Because Adam’s descendants were “contained in” him - so the harm done by his sin to him & us, is a bit like that done to a mother & her baby if she is addicted to drugs: her ill-health is passed on to the child she conceives, not because the child is at fault, but because its parent is sick. The drug-taking is the act of the mother, not of the foetus; but the foetus is greatly harmed even so.​

We are not guilty of Adam’s sin in our own persons - we are born damaged, into a state of sinfulness. OS is not our sin, but Adam’s; but because he was our head & father, somewhat as Christ the Last Adam is our Head in grace, his offspring are “irradiated” by the “radiation” of his disobedience. His sin means that we are born at enmity with God, alienated from God, lacking His grace. This “irradiation” lasts until the birth of the last human being born from Adam: it has to “work itself out”. The good news is that even sin is not beyond God’s power to “make something out of”.

Any use ?

 

[Nita]

I think it’s at the end of 404…“And that is why original sin is called “sin” only in an analogical sense: it is a sin “contracted” and not “committed” - a state and not an act.”

It’s not something you did (committed), but you’ve contracted the guilt of sin. I think that’s what is meant here. I don’t think this is talking about our sin nature (concupiscience) which is a consequence of Adam’s sin. I think it’s talking about the guilt of sin.

Anybody else?? Am I right or wrong?

I’d just add a few more quotes from the CCC section you noted:

#403…Adam’s sin and the fact that he has transmitted to us a sin with which we are all afflicted, a sin which is the "death of the soul."The “death of the soul” refers to the absence of the supernatural life of God - sanctifying grace - in our souls. Being born in the state of original sin refers essentially to being born without this life of grace present in our souls.

*#405 …Baptism, by imparting **the life of Christ’s grace, erases original sin **and turns a man back toward God, but the consequences for nature, weakened and inclined to evil, persist **in man *and summon him to spiritual battle.

Nita

 

[fellowChristian]

Ok how about this?

If the river gets polluted at the opening,
then the whole river becomes polluted.

or this

If our president declares war, then we all are at war.

I heard Archbishop Fulton Sheen explain it this way.

 

[gookykookypig]

Ok how about this?

If the river gets polluted at the opening,
then the whole river becomes polluted.

or this

If our president declares war, then we all are at war.

I heard Archbishop Fulton Sheen explain it this way.

:heaven:

 

[AveSantaMaria]

*Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with Thee. Blessed art Thou among women and blessed is the fruit of Thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death. Amen. *

Come Holy Spirit, come by means of the powerful intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, your well beloved spouse. Come Holy Spirit, come by means of the powerful intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, your well beloved spouse. Come Holy Spirit, come by means of the powerful intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, your well beloved spouse.

I do not pretend to be gifted with God’s wisdom in this matter. However, here is my best attempt at answering the question: Say in 1600, there is a man who illegaly transports thousands of slaves from Africa. He abuses them harshly, brands them, beats them, scourges them, destroys their family structure, kills them so that 3/4’s of them die. He grows rich from the slave trade and passes his enormous fortune to his children and grandchildren, who preserve it. He releases the rest of the slaves after a civil war, to an unknown land with an unknown language - where before they were part of a community with their own wealth, now they are the poorest of the poor. Meanwhile, the country where the slaves originally were has had its culture destroyed, and the violence of the now ended slave trade has created violence there as well. His grandchildren continue to use the immense inheritance that they inherited to enrich themselves without ever giving a penny to the freed slaves and thoroughly enjoy their upper class status. Are the grandchildren or children even the slightest bit guilty of their father’s sin? Do they unlawfully possess something that should not be theirs?

Can we give God back the effects of the forbidden fruit that Adam and Eve ate? Can we spit out the effects of the tree of knowledge of good and evil that they were not supposed to eat or has the unlawful knowledge of good and evil been passed down to us just like the original sin?

Come Holy Spirit, come by means of the powerful intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, your well beloved spouse. Come Holy Spirit, come by means of the powerful intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, your well beloved spouse. Come Holy Spirit, come by means of the powerful intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, your well beloved spouse.

*Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with Thee. Blessed art Thou among women and blessed is the fruit of Thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death. Amen. *

 

[neophyte]

Why are we, generations later, *guilty *of mankind’s first sin in addition to suffering such sin’s consequences (death)?

We’re not. Original sin doesn’t mean that we personally bear the guilt of the sin that Adam commited. 1ke quoted the relevant passage from the Catechism.

However, when we repeat it ourselves we certainly bear the guilt of that.