Original sin (not) in Judaism

[Reuben_J]

May I ask how you came upon the idea Protestants don’t believe in original sin?

I know we may differ on some issues but rest assured, that is one where we agree

Hi. I thought that original sin is an exclusively Catholic belief. I had my niece-in-law, well, she was a Protestant but converted to Catholic when she married my nephew. There were a few questions that she wanted clarified and original sin was one of them.

I do not have Protestant background and some of their belief I picked up randomly.

But I am glad we agree on this one.

God bless.

 

[meltzerboy]

I watched a documentary recently that touched on the subject that Judaism does not believe in Original sin. This made me wonder about something I never realized in this way.

I grew up thinking that “Jews didn’t accept Jesus and are still waiting for their Messiah”. But what do you expect of your Messiah as you don’t need a redeemer. What is the purpose of the Jewish Messiah? What will happen after He comes?

What is the Jewish take on a heaven and how will you get there?

Regards

One of the main purposes of the Messiah is bringing peace among the nations of the earth. This is thought to come about based on the realization that the G-d of the Bible is the one true G-d. This does not mean that everyone must convert to Judaism, however. Further, the coming of Messiah is associated with the intensification of Torah study, rather than the Christian belief that Jesus fulfilled the teachings of Torah. There are, by the way, a group of people called Nazarene Jews, who believe Jesus was the Messiah and that he wanted to intensify and refine the studying of the Torah; however, the Church got his message all wrong in believing he was creating a New Testament. Finally, the Messiah signals the influx of the Jewish tribes back to their homeland, Israel, where they can live in peace with all of humanity.

What the Messiah is NOT, according to Judaism, is a redeemer in the sense of a personal savior. Judaism does not believe this is necessary since the principal means of repentance and atonement are, and always have been, prayer and good deeds, based on the teachings in the Hebrew Scripture.

 

[Reuben_J]

1. When children were brought to Jesus, He blessed them. He didn’t baptize them.

Then he embraced them and blessed them, placing his hands on them.

Btw, this is what happened in baptism of a child. He is baptized (blessed) in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.

1. Jesus likens the kingdom of heaven to children. He wouldn’t have done so if they were tainted by sin.

Matthew 19:14 but Jesus said, “Let the children come to me, and do not prevent them; for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these.”

This verse can be understood in other ways too.

Who can enter the Kingdom of heaven? Would it be the rich, the powerful or the learned? Or would it be the ones who have full trust in the Father (like little children do)?

I mean, we can use biblical verses to explain our point but their usage are not necessarily limited to specific type only.

I don’t dispute you on your explanation but just to tell you that there are other explanations as well.

edit: probably it is significant that he blessed them before pronounced that they are holy. Without that blessing, by coming to Jesus, they may have missed the grace. Thus they have to come to Jesus.

 

[Peter_J]

I watched a documentary recently that touched on the subject that Judaism does not believe in Original sin.

Interesting thread. That surprised me too, when I first read it, but if we understand it to mean not believing in a stain of original sin it’s not too surprising.

 

[Wannano]

Hi. No problem at all. Yes, I just saying what my belief was.

I agree with you about parents’ responsibility of bringing up their children in the faith.

In Catholicism this is what infant baptism entails. The priest/Church may refuse to baptize the infant if there is no commitment from the parents that the child will be brought up in the faith.

So what you are doing is actually what we do in bringing up the child except for you, there is no baptism.

I was saying bringing a child to Jesus by baptism because this is what baptism means to us. In order to be a Christian, one must be initiated into the faith and that was through baptism.

We also believe in original sin which can only be wiped off by the grace of baptism.

If you do not believe in original sin and the purpose of baptism as we do, then of course there is no need for baptism of infant for you. I guess our respective belief comes as a result of what we believe.

I have looked again this morning at these posts and a question comes to me as a result of this post.

With the belief that one must be baptized to have original sin wiped off their record, and in order to be a Christian one must be initiated into the faith by baptism, how can the Church refuse to baptize the baby that is presented to them for baptism by parents who will not necessarily commit to bring them up in the faith? Somehow that does not seem fair to the baby. Isn’t that stopping the baby from “coming to Jesus?”

 

[Lenten_ashes]

I have looked again this morning at these posts and a question comes to me as a result of this post.

With the belief that one must be baptized to have original sin wiped off their record, and in order to be a Christian one must be initiated into the faith by baptism, how can the Church refuse to baptize the baby that is presented to them for baptism by parents who will not necessarily commit to bring them up in the faith? Somehow that does not seem fair to the baby. Isn’t that stopping the baby from “coming to Jesus?”

Hi Wan

The Church teaches that while God gives us sacraments, He, himself, is not bound by those sacraments. So it’s not like the baby passes of SIDS and then goes to hell.

Very important the child has a solid foundation in the Christian faith.

Pax

 

[susanlo]

What the Messiah is NOT, according to Judaism, is a redeemer in the sense of a personal savior. Judaism does not believe this is necessary since the principal means of repentance and atonement are, and always have been, prayer and good deeds, based on the teachings in the Hebrew Scripture.

I am confused about this topic and I have a few questions about sin and Judaism.

In Judaism, is it believed to be possible for someone to live into adulthood and never commit any sin? - Is a sinless life possible?

How does the Jewish faith explain the presence of sin and evil in this world?

 

[TOmNossor]

For anyone who doesn’t believe in original sin(EO’s, Jews or whoever) Why is it that babies know nothing, but how to say the word NO !!?!?!??

Seriously, nobody has to teach them to be all ugly and say no, they just do it lol

I thought I would offer something along this line.
Piaget’s and Erikson’s Stages of Childhood Development describe how humans grow from infants to various adult stages in life. The most famous illustration of this is Piaget’s glass of water where below a certain age children are not capable of assessing both how tall and how wide the glass of water is but can only focus on one of these dimensions.
Erikson traces how we grow through different social stages. You said babies learn to say “no.” This is quite often true. It is almost universally (maybe universally) true that babies only gradually become aware that those who provide positive and negative stimulus to them are distinct centers of consciousness similar but separate from themselves. The pre-developed baby is literally the most selfish person possible because cognitively it is “all about them.” Eventually, they become aware that their behavior can change the stimulus they receive from others and they conform their behavior to receive positive stimulus, but not out of love or concern for how their behavior makes others feel. At some point in their development, as they recognize there are other people AND as they understand what it is to be selfish, they recognize they have ALREADY been selfish. The most common initial response to this selfishness is self-justification and occasionally future change in behavior. The need for Christ’s justification comes after the recognition of sins having already been committed.

I believe, and where I Jewish or Catholic or Eastern Orthodox or … I would believe this is a product of “the fall.”

I thought I would share this as your comment was in alignment with this thought in my mind.
Charity, TOm

 

[Peter_J]

One problem, I think, is that people hear that Catholics believe in Original Sin and assume something like this is intended:

“Every baby starts life as a little savage. He is completely selfish and self-centered. He wants what he wants when he wants it: his bottle, his mother’s attention, his playmates toys… or whatever. Deny him these and he seethes with rage and aggressiveness, which could be murderous, were he not so helpless. He’s dirty; he has no morals, no knowledge, no developed skills. This means that all children, not just certain children, but all children, are born delinquent. If permitted to continue in their self-centered world of infancy, given free rein to their impulsive actions to satisfy each want, every child would grow up a criminal, a thief, a killer, a rapist.”

(Many Evangelicals (e.g. Reb Bradley in his book, ‘Born Liberal Raised Right’) apparently claim that quote is from the 1926 Minnesota Crime Commission, but I believe that claim has been debunked.)

Now contrast that with Boys’ Town’s Father Flanagan who thought – or at least could hope that – “There’s no such thing as a bad boy”, without of course denying the Catholic doctrine of Original Sin.