Original sin or Personal sin

[javid]

Jesus is a divine person. When He died, His soul left His body.
Jesus is God
Therefore God died. QED

To deny this is support one of the heresies related to the person-hood of Jesus.

It is not orthodoxy. Give me Chatholic refrence which says this.

 

[javid]

Jesus conquered death-by proving that physical death does not result in cessation of existence! IOW, the death of the body He “wore” was no death at all-of the being possessing that body. So God could experience the death of the incarnated body He assumed without dying in terms of existence, of course. According to the doctrine of the hypostatic union, there is no separation in Jesus of personhood between human and divine, so, yes, God did have both a body and spirit.

It is not orthodoxy again! Give a refrence.

You said: God did have both a body and spirit!!

But Holy Bible says: God is spirit.

According to your view, God has two parts: body and spirit! So according to your view:

God= divine body(!)+ divine spirit

It is against divine simplicity, and according to your view God needs his parts to exist. It is blasphemy and The Church never teached this.

 

[fhansen]

It is not orthodoxy again! Give a refrence.

You said: God did have both a body and spirit!!

But Holy Bible says: God is spirit.

According to your view, God has two parts: body and spirit! So according to your view:

God= divine body(!)+ divine spirit

It is against divine simplicity, and according to your view God needs his parts to exist. It is blasphemy and The Church never teached this.

Was Jesus fully God? Did He possess a body and spirit? I never said He needed the body to exist. Is He one person?

 

[javid]

Was Jesus fully God? Did He possess a body and spirit? I never said He needed the body to exist. Is He one person?

Dear fhansen
What you forgot is Jesus was fully man, too. God is spirit and has no body and no body can see him. You must pay attention to what is man nature and what is divine nature.

Your claim that “God died” and your orher claim that “God has both body and spirit” never teached in the Church and both are irrational.

 

[javid]

Was Jesus fully God? Did He possess a body and spirit? I never said He needed the body to exist. Is He one person?

Dear fhansen
What you forgot is Jesus was fully man, too. God is spirit and has no body and no body can see him. You must pay attention to what is man nature and what is divine nature.

Your claim that “God died” and your orher claim that “God has both body and spirit” never teached in the Church and both are irrational.

 

[fhansen]

Dear fhansen
What you forgot is Jesus was fully man, too. God is spirit and has no body and no body can see him. You must pay attention to what is man nature and what is divine nature.

Your claim that “God died” and your orher claim that “God has both body and spirit” never teached in the Church and both are irrational.

You forget that Jesus was fully God. In Jesus God* became* man-this is Catholic teaching. And this is why it is rightfully taught that Mary is the Mother of God. So now, does God have a mother-or does somehow only Jesus have a mother?

 

[porthos11]

Dear sir

I asked it infirt post! Others said he died for both original and personal sins of humankind. I am not Calvinist!!

Now if you agree with this, Question is not on sacrifice of Lord Jesus. Yes he can love us and he can do every thing for us. My Question is on punishment if the sinners. Why God diss not punish or forgive the sinner and just a innocent one must die for him?

As I said before if some one bother you, and the judge says I will be punished instead of him or he says my son will be punished instead of him; Do you think it is justly? If yes, say me how! He didn’t punish the guilty one and just bothered another one who didn’t bother you!

Because there is only one punishment for sin: hell. God loved man too much to leave him to that fate, which is why he willingly took our sins on himself and made the atonement necessary. He bore our sins on the cross because he loved us. God did not punish is Son in our place. The Son, took our sins willingly and paid for them himself.

If one does not accept the saving grace Jesus merited for us on the Cross, then that person does get the punishment he deserves: hell.

So I ask again: what’s the problem?

 

[porthos11]

Dear fhansen
What you forgot is Jesus was fully man, too. God is spirit and has no body and no body can see him. You must pay attention to what is man nature and what is divine nature.

Your claim that “God died” and your orher claim that “God has both body and spirit” never teached in the Church and both are irrational.

No. YOU are wrong. The communication of idioms does permit us to say in complete truth that God died, because it is not a nature that dies, but a person. That Person who died is the second Person of the Trinity, therefore just as Mary is the Mother of God, it is completely correct to say “God died”.

You’re confusing Person and Nature.

 

[javid]

You forget that Jesus was fully God. In Jesus God* became* man-this is Catholic teaching. And this is why it is rightfully taught that Mary is the Mother of God. So now, does God have a mother-or does somehow only Jesus have a mother?

Absolutly not. I did not forget it. We discussed about it before sir.

Please reply last part of that discussion: what you said contradicts with simplicity of God

 

[javid]

Because there is only one punishment for sin: hell. God loved man too much to leave him to that fate, which is why he willingly took our sins on himself and made the atonement necessary. He bore our sins on the cross because he loved us. God did not punish is Son in our place. The Son, took our sins willingly and paid for them himself.

If one does not accept the saving grace Jesus merited for us on the Cross, then that person does get the punishment he deserves: hell.

So I ask again: what’s the problem?

Dear Porthos

The problem is: imagine some one has excruciated you. You complaint to the judical, And your father who is great judge of world says: “I love this one so I’ll be punished instead of the torturer”.

Now What? A bad one did not been punished And A good one been punished!

My problem is that I think it is not fair. It is voluntary but not justly.

 

[fhansen]

Absolutly not. I did not forget it. We discussed about it before sir.

Please reply last part of that discussion: what you said contradicts with simplicity of God

God became man, assuming a body and human nature. He could certainly do that if He so desired. And you didn’t answer *my *question. I’ll put it a different way: was it only Jesus the man hanging on the cross, or was God, the Son of Mary, hanging on the cross? God became man-He didn’t need to but He did-so that the two, God and God the Son are one person-inseparable.

 

[javid]

God became man, assuming a body and human nature. He could certainly do that if He so desired. And you didn’t answer *my *question. I’ll put it a different way: was it only Jesus the man hanging on the cross, or was God, the Son of Mary, hanging on the cross? God became man-He didn’t need to but He did-so that the two, God and God the Son are one person-inseparable.

Dear fhansen

If you say Lord Jesus died when his natures where in union, it can be true.

But if yiu claim that real suffered and died, I ask you:

1.What does “death” mean? If you mean separation of body and soul, I’ll say this claim rejects simplicity of God, as we discussed before.

2.Is body of Jesus the God? If yes, you belive in a material God And if no, God didn’t suffered and died, because these all happen to Jesus’ body.

 

[fhansen]

Dear fhansen

If you say Lord Jesus died when his natures where in union, it can be true.

But if yiu claim that real suffered and died, I ask you:

1.What does “death” mean? If you mean separation of body and soul, I’ll say this claim rejects simplicity of God, as we discussed before.

2.Is body of Jesus the God? If yes, you belive in a material God And if no, God didn’t suffered and died, because these all happen to Jesus’ body.

The problem is that with the doctrine of the hypostatic union you simply cannot separate the man from the God. We can conceptualize it and speak of it any way we want but in the end there is no distinction in essence between Jesus and God. And we don’t claim to be able to fully comprehend the Trinity; mystery is an unavoidable part of the equation.

 

[mdcpensive1]

Dear mdcpensive1

Yes, I said it from the begginig. But Original Question is why a just judge must accept that a innocent one be punished instead of a sinner.

Best regards

The judge accepts the sacrifice of the one He loves when Jesus offers Himself to the Father in place of us since we could not atone for our own sins. Jesus offers Himself because He is love and shows us His love for us as He was innocent.

That should be the answer to your question. Christ did it to fulfill the promise of a savior by offering Himself for the atonement. That is generosity and love.

Best regards and happiness.

 

[javid]

The problem is that with the doctrine of the hypostatic union you simply cannot separate the man from the God. We can conceptualize it and speak of it any way we want but in the end there is no distinction in essence between Jesus and God. And we don’t claim to be able to fully comprehend the Trinity; mystery is an unavoidable part of the equation.

Ansolutly not. I can separate, but you can’t, so you said God died. Jesus as a man died, not as God. If you think your view is true, Please answer my questions.

 

[javid]

The judge accepts the sacrifice of the one He loves when Jesus offers Himself to the Father in place of us since we could not atone for our own sins. Jesus offers Himself because He is love and shows us His love for us as He was innocent.

That should be the answer to your question. Christ did it to fulfill the promise of a savior by offering Himself for the atonement. That is generosity and love.

Best regards and happiness.

Dear mdcpensive

You just explain what happened. I know this. My problem is: I can’t understand how a just judge may release a sunner and punish a innocent one instead of him. My problem is on just, not on love.

 

[mdcpensive1]

Dear mdcpensive

You just explain what happened. I know this. My problem is: I can’t understand how a just judge may release a sunner and punish a innocent one instead of him. My problem is on just, not on love.

I guess I am thinking of WWII in the concentration camps when Maximilian Koelbe volunteered to take the place of a man with a family that was going to be killed. He volunteered to be killed in his place. He gave his life as a substitution for the other which is what Christ did for us. In that sense I believe that a justice has been done but the sinner goes on in a gift of love.

We see this same thing at Christmas time when mystery persons pay the bills of people they don’t know out of kindness. It is the same principle.

Hope this helps.

 

[javid]

I guess I am thinking of WWII in the concentration camps when Maximilian Koelbe volunteered to take the place of a man with a family that was going to be killed. He volunteered to be killed in his place. He gave his life as a substitution for the other which is what Christ did for us. In that sense I believe that a justice has been done but the sinner goes on in a gift of love.

We see this same thing at Christmas time when mystery persons pay the bills of people they don’t know out of kindness. It is the same principle.

Hope this helps.

Dear sir

Problem is on just, not on love. I said it before.

 

[fhansen]

1.What does “death” mean? If you mean separation of body and soul, I’ll say this claim rejects simplicity of God, as we discussed before.

Separation of body and soul. The body is not essential to Jesus’s-and therefore to God’s-existence.

2.Is body of Jesus the God? If yes, you belive in a material God And if no, God didn’t suffered and died, because these all happen to Jesus’ body.

The body of Jesus is not Jesus either; it’s His body, with which He suffered and died.

 

[javid]

Separation of body and soul. The body is not essential to Jesus’s-and therefore to God’s-existence.

The body of Jesus is not Jesus either; it’s His body, with which He suffered and died.

Dear fhansen

1.God does not have two parts to saparation. According to your view:

God= divine soul + divine body

It is irrational, because God will need his body and his soul to exist.

In addition, God is spirit as st john wrote in his gospel, so God has no body.

2.If God have a body, so he made up from billion cells. So a self-exist has no body.