Original Sin vs. None

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If you read, go to the paragraph the link to footnote three is; in that paragraph, the argument loses me and I basically lose interest, because it makes NO sense to me.
 
ST. IRENAEUS (c. 180 AD)

…having become disobedient, [Eve] was made the cause of death for herself and for the whole human race; so also Mary, betrothed to a man but nevertheless still a virgin, being obedient, was made the cause of salvation for herself and for the whole human race…Thus, the knot of Eve’s disobedience was loosed by the obedience of Mary. What the virgin Eve had bound in unbelief, the Virgin Mary loosed through faith. …But this man [of whom I have been speaking] is Adam, if truth be told, the first-formed man…WE, however, are all FROM him; and as WE are FROM him, WE have INHERITED his title [of sin]. …Indeed, THROUGH the first Adam, WE offended God by not observing His command. Through the second Adam, however, we are reconciled, and are made obedient even unto death. For we were debtors to none other except to Him, whose commandment WE transgressed at the beginning. (Against Heresies 3:22:4; 3:23:2; 5:16:3)

TERTULLIAN (c. 200 AD)

Finally, in every instance of vexation, contempt, and abhorrence, you pronounce the name of Satan. He it is whom we call the angel of wickedness, the author of every error, the corrupter of the whole world, through whom MAN was deceived in the very beginning so that he transgressed the command of God. On ACCOUNT of his transgression MAN was given over to death; and the WHOLE HUMAN RACE, which was INFECTED by his SEED, was made the TRANSMITTER of condemnation. (The Testmiony of the Soul 3:2, c. 200 AD)

“Because by a man came death, by a man also comes resurrection” [1 Cor 15:21]. Here, by the word MAN, who consists of a body, as we have often shown already, I understand that it is a fact that Christ had a body. And if we are all made to live in Christ as WE were made to DIE IN ADAM, then, as in the flesh we were made to DIE IN ADAM, so also in the flesh are we made to live in Christ. Otherwise, if the coming to life in Christ were not to take place in that same substance in which WE DIE IN ADAM, the parallel were imperfect. (Against Marcion 5:9:5, c. 210 AD)

ORIGEN (c. 244 AD)

EVERYONE in the world FALLS PROSTRATE under SIN. And it is the Lord who sets up those who are cast down and who sustains all who are falling [Psalm 145:14]. IN ADAM ALL DIE, and THUS the world FALLS PROSTRATE and requires to be SET UP AGAIN, so that in Christ all may be made to live [1 Cor 15:22]. (Homilies on Jeremias 8:1)

EVERY SOUL that is BORN into flesh is SOILED by the filth of wickedness and SIN…And if it should seem necessary to do so, there may be added to the aforementioned considerations [referring to previous Scriptures cited that we all sin] the fact that in the Church, Baptism is given FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS; and according to the usage of the Church, Baptism is given EVEN TO INFANTS. And indeed if there were nothing in infants which REQUIRED a remission of sins and nothing in them pertinent to forgiveness, the grace of Baptism would seem SUPERFLUOUS. (Homilies on Leviticus 8:3)

The Church received from the Apostles the tradition of giving Baptism EVEN TO INFANTS. For the Apostles, to whom were committed the secrets of divine mysteries, knew that there is in everyone the INNATE STAINS OF SIN, which must be WASHED AWAY through water and the Spirit [cf. John 3:5; Acts 2:38]. (Commentaries on Romans 5:9)

ST. CYPRIAN OF CARTHAGE (c. 250 AD)

If, in the case of the worst sinners and of those who formerly sinned much against God, when afterwards they believe, the REMISSION OF THEIR SINS is granted and no one is held back from Baptism and grace, how much more, then, should an INFANT not be held back, who, having but recently been BORN, has done no sin [committed no personal sin], EXCEPT THAT, BORN OF THE FLESH ACCORDING TO ADAM, HE HAS CONTRACTED THE CONTAGION OF THAT OLD DEATH FROM HIS FIRST BEING BORN. For this very reason does he approach more easily to receive the REMISSION OF SINS: because the SINS FORGIVEN HIM are NOT his OWN but THOSE OF ANOTHER *. (Letters 64:5 of Cyprian and his 66 colleagues in Council to Fidus)

ST. METHODIUS OF PHILIPPI (c. 300 AD)

Man too was CREATED WITHOUT CORRUPTION…But when it came about that he transgressed the commandment, he suffered a terrible and destructive fall and was reduced to a state of death. The Lord says that it was on this account that He Himself came down from heaven to the world, taking leave of the ranks and armies of the angels…It was to this end that the Word put on humanity: that He might overcome the serpent and that He might Himself put down the CONDEMNATION which had FIRST COME INTO BEING WHEN MAN WAS RUINED. For it was fitting that the evil one should be conquered not by another, but by that one whom he had deceived, and whom he was boasting that he held in subjection. In no other way could sin and condemnation be destroyed, except by that same man’s being CREATED ANEW – he of whom it was said: “Earth you are, and unto earth you shall return” [Gen 3:19] – and by his undoing the sentence which, BECAUSE OF HIM [Adam], had been pronounced upon ALL. Thus, just as IN ADAM ALL DID FORMERLY DIE, so again in Christ, who put on Adam, ALL ARE MADE TO LIVE [1 Cor 15:22]. (The Banquet of the Ten Virgins or On Chastity 3:6)*
 
APHRAATES THE PERSIAN SAGE (c. 340 AD)

For from Baptism we receive the Spirit of Christ. At that same moment in which the priests invoke the Spirit, heaven opens, and he descends and rests upon the waters; and those who are baptized are clothed in Him. For the Spirit is ABSENT from all those who are BORN OF THE FLESH, until they come to the WATER OF RE-BIRTH; and then they receive the Holy Spirit [cf. John 3:5; Acts 2:38]. Indeed, in the first birth they are born possessed of an animal spirit, which is created within man, nor afterwards does it ever die, for it is written: “Adam became a living soul” [cf. Gen 2:7; 1 Cor 15:45]. But in the second birth, that through Baptism, they receive the Holy Spirit from a particle of the Godhead; nor is He afterwards subject to death…Of all those who have been BORN and who have PUT ON FLESH, there is ONE ONLY who is INNOCENT: namely, our Lord Jesus Christ, who in fact testifies to such in His own regard [John 16:33; Isa 53:9; Mal 3:6; 2 Cor 5:21; Col 2:14; 1 Cor 9:24 are then alluded to or cited]…Moreover, among the SONS OF ADAM THERE IS NONE besides Him who might ENTER THE RACE [are born] WITHOUT BEING WOUNDED or swallowed up…For SIN has ruled from the time ADAM TRANSGRESSED THE COMMAND. By one among the many was it swallowed up; MANY * DID IT WOUND, AND MANY DID IT KILL; but none among the many killed it until our Savior came, who took it on Himself and fixed it to His cross…Indeed, because the first human being gave ear and listened to the serpent, he received the sentence of malediction, by which he became food for the serpent; and the curse PASSED ON TO ALL HIS PROGENY. (Treatises 6:14; 7:1; 23:3)

ST. EPHRAIM OF SYRIA (c. 306 - 373 AD)

Adam sinned and EARNED ALL SORROWS, AND THE WORLD, FOLLOWING HIS LEAD, ALL GUILT. And it took no thought of how it might be restored, but only of how its fall might be made more pleasant for it. Glory to Him that came and restored it! (Hymns of the Epiphany 10:1)

ST. ATHANASIUS (c. 360 AD)

Adam, the first man, altered his course, and through sin death came into the world…When Adam transgressed, SIN reached out TO ALL MEN. (Discourses Against the Arians 1:51)

ST. CYRIL OF JERUSALEM (c. 350 AD)

The crown of the cross led into the light those who were blinded by ignorance, loosed all those who were chained by their sins, and redeemed the totality of men. Do not wonder that the whole world is redeemed. It was no mere man, but the only-begotten Son of God, who died on its behalf. Indeed, ONE MAN’S SIN, THAT OF ADAM, HAD THE POWER TO BRING DEATH TO THE WORLD. If by the transgression of one, death reigned over the world [Rom 5:17], why should not life more fittingly reign by the righteousness of one? If they were cast out of paradise because of the tree and the eating thereof, shall not believers now enter more easily into paradise because of the tree of Jesus? If that man first formed out of the earth USHERED IN UNIVERSAL DEATH, shall not He that formed him out of the earth bring in eternal life, since He Himself is Life? (Catechetical Lectures 13:1-2)

ST. BASIL THE GREAT (c. 379 AD)

Little given, much gotten; by the donation of food the ORIGINAL SIN IS DISCHARGED [Greek given by Jurgens]. JUST AS ADAM TRANSMITTED THE SIN by his wicked eating, we destroy that treacherous food when we cure the need and hunger of our brother…For prisoners, Baptism is ransom, FORGIVENESS OF DEBTS, DEATH OF SIN, regeneration of the soul, a resplendent garment, an unbreakable seal, a chariot to heaven, a protector royal, a gift of adoption. (Eulogies on the Martyrs 8:7; 13:5)

DIDYMUS THE BLIND (c. 313 - 398 AD)

If Christ had received His body from a marital union and not in another way it would be supposed that he too is liable to an accounting for that SIN, WHICH, INDEED, ALL WHO ARE DESCENDED FROM ADAM CONTRACT IN SUCCESSION. [See Jurgens comment on this passage, vol 2, pg 64] (Against the Manicheans 8)*
 
ST. JOHN CHRYSOSTOM (c. 344 - 407 AD)

You see how many are the benefits of Baptism, and some think its heavenly grace consists only in the remission of sins; but we have enumerated ten honors. For this reason we baptize even infants, THOUGH THEY ARE NOT DEFILED BY SIN [or though they do not HAVE PERSONAL SINS]: so that there may be given to them holiness, righteousness, adoption, inheritance, brotherhood with Christ, and that they may be his members. (Baptismal Catechesis cited by St. Augustine in Contra Julian 1:6)

On this passage, St. Augustine remarks in Contra Julian 1:6:22 after quoting the above line in Greek:

“You see that he (John Chrysostom) certainly did not say, ‘Infants are not defiled by sin,’ or ‘sins,’ but, ‘NOT HAVING SINS.’ Understand ‘of their own,’ and there is no difficulty. ‘But,’ you will say, ‘why did he not add “of their own” himself?’ Why else, I suppose, if not that he was speaking in a Catholic church and never supposed he would be understood in any other way, when no one had raised such a question, and he could speak more unconcernedly when you were not there to dispute the point?”

Further, Jurgens comments that Julian of Eclanum had appealed to Chrysostom in support of Pelagianism by quoting the line above from -Ad neophytos- “We baptize even infants, though they are not defiled by sin” and he took this as a denial of original sin. However, Augustine had not just the Latin but the original GREEK of the same text which reads: “We baptize even infants, though they do not HAVE SINS.” Augustine insists that the plural SINS makes it clear that Chrysostom was speaking of personal sins. Augustine further exonerates Chrysostom and deprives Julian of his source by quoting numerous other passages of Chrysostom.

Christ came once. He found OUR paternal note of hand, which Adam wrote. That man [Adam] brought in the beginning of the debt. We INCREASED the interest by OUR LATER sins. (cited by St. Augustine in Contra Julian 1:6:26, the original Greek of Chrysostom is given by Jurgens, vol 2, pg 101, n2)

Augustine comments: “Was he content to say ‘the paternal note of hand,’ without adding ‘our?’ He added the ‘our’ so that we might know that BEFORE we INCREASED the interest by our LATER sins, the debt of that paternal note of hand ALREADY pertained to us.”

What does this mean, “Because all have sinned” [Rom 5:12] ? In that fall even those who did not eat of the tree – ALL DID FROM THE TRANSGRESSION [of Adam] become mortal…For [Adam’s sin in paradise] was productive of that death in which WE ALL participate…From this it is clear that it was not this sin, the sin of transgressing the Law, that ruined everything, BUT THAT SIN OF ADAM’S DISOBEDIENCE…What is the proof of this? The fact that even before the Law, ALL DIED. “Death reigned,” he says, “from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned” [Rom 5:14a]. How did it reign? “In the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come” [Rom 5:14b]. This too is why Adam is a type of Christ: …That when a Jew would say to you, “How by the righteous action of this one Man, Christ, was the world saved?” you might be able to answer him, “How by the wrong-doing of one Adam, WAS THE WORLD CONDEMNED?” (Homilies on the Epistle to the Romans 10:1)

Jurgens comments, vol 2, pg 115-116, n5 on the above and Rom 5:12 –

“Chrysostom knew Greek too, and he never supposed it meant anything except BECAUSE. He still refers the passage to original sin, and understands by the clause “because all have sinned” that what is meant is “because all have sinned [IN ADAM].” It is not just that all have sinned in sequence after Adam, but all have sinned in consequence of Adam…The final clause clearly calls for the interpretation “because all have sinned IN ADAM.” It need not exclude personal sin, but it must include original sin… Chrysostom and the Fathers at large would have seen Rom 5:12 as referring to original sin. The mention of sin causing death, and death being therefore the lot of all men were enough; for it must be admitted that the Fathers in general do not easily distinguish between original sin and its effects. Thus, for Chrysostom, the very fact that men do die, even without the “because all have sinned,” would point to original sin.” (Note the following)

We have been freed from punishment, we have put off all wickedness, and we have been reborn from above [in Baptism, John 3:3,5], and we have risen again, with the old man buried, and we have been redeemed, and we have been sanctified, and we have been given adoption into sonship, and we have been justified, and we have been made brothers of the Only-begotten, and we have been constituted joint heirs and concorporeal with Him and have been perfected in his flesh, and have been united to Him as a body to its head…All of this Paul calls an “abundance of grace” [Rom 5:17], showing that what we have received is not just a medicine to counteract the WOUND, but even health and comeliness and honor and glory and dignities going far beyond what were natural to us. And each of these was able by itself to do away with death; but when all of them seem to run together at the same time, there is not a vestige of it left, nor a shadow of it to be seen, so completely has it disappeared…Christ paid out much more than the debt we owed, as much more as the boundless sea exceeds a little drop…“For just as by the disobedience of one man the many were MADE SINNERS, so too by the obedience of One, the many will be made just” [Rom 5:19]. …What does the word “SINNERS” mean here? It seems to me that it means LIABLE TO PUNISHMENT AND CONDEMNED TO DEATH. (Homilies on the Epistle to the Romans 10:2)
 
ST. PACIAN OF BARCELONA (c. 392 AD)

After Adam sinned, as I noted before, when the Lord said, “You are earth, and to earth you shall return” [Gen 3:19], Adam was condemned to death. THIS CONDEMNATION PASSED ON TO THE WHOLE RACE. FOR ALL SINNED, ALREADY BY THEIR SHARING IN THAT NATURE [ipsa iam urgente natura], as the Apostle says: “For through one man sin made its entry, and through sin death, and thus it came down to all men, because all have sinned” [Rom 5:12, and see Jurgens note, vol 2, pg 144, n3]…Someone will say to me: But THE SIN OF ADAM DESERVEDLY PASSED ON TO HIS POSTERITY, because they were begotten of him: but how are we to be begotten of Christ, so that we can be saved through Him? Do not think of these things in a carnal fashion. You have already seen how we are begotten by Christ our Parent. In these last times Christ took a soul and with it flesh from Mary: this flesh came to prepare salvation… (Sermons on Baptism 2; 6)

ST. AMBROSE OF MILAN (c. 383 AD)

Before we are born WE ARE INFECTED WITH THE CONTAGION, and before we see the light of day we experience the INJURY OF OUR ORIGIN. IN INIQUITY WE ARE CONCEIVED [cf. Psalm 51:5] – he does not say whether the wickedness is of our parents or our own – AND IN SINS each one’s mother gives him life. Nor with this did he state whether his mother gave birth to him in her own sins or whether the sins of which he speaks pertain in some way to being born. But consider and see what is meant. NO CONCEPTION IS WITHOUT INIQUITY, since there are NO PARENTS WHO HAVE NOT FALLEN. And if there is NO INFANT WHO IS EVEN ONE DAY WITHOUT SIN, much less can the CONCEPTIONS of a mother’s womb be WITHOUT SIN. We are conceived, therefore, in the sin of our parents, and it is in their sins that we are born. (Explanation of David the Prophet 1:11:56, Jurgens comments that in the above passage “the emphasis is upon concupiscence”)

Adam was brought into being; and WE WERE ALL BROUGHT INTO BEING IN HIM. Adam perished and IN HIM ALL PERISHED. (Commentary on the Gospel of Luke 7:234, c. 389 AD)

AMBROSIASTER or Pseudo-Ambrose (c. 366 - 384 AD)

“In whom” – that is, IN ADAM – “all have sinned” [Rom 5:12]. And he said “in whom,” using the masculine form, when he was speaking of a woman, because the reference was not to a specific individual but to the race. It is clear, therefore, that ALL HAVE SINNED IN ADAM, -en masse- as it were; for when he himself was corrupted by sin, all whom he begot were BORN UNDER SIN. On his account, then, all are sinners, because WE ARE ALL FROM HIM. He lost God’s favor when he strayed. (Commentaries on 13 Pauline Epistles, In Rom 5:12, see also Jurgens comments vol 2, pg 179, n1-3)

Taken from our friend PhilVaz’s site. :o
 
Thank you all for your help! Many prayers for you who have helped me. Pax et bonum.
I think our beliefs make more sense now.
 
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