W
wjp984
Guest
are we even required as catholics to believe Adam and Eve ever existed?
- Status
E
eakern
Guest
Hello,
Maybe I can help .I’m somewhat new to the Church and Faith as well. I was an atheist for a long time and had the same question. about original sin. The forbidden fruit was from the tree of knowledge.Maybe an explanation could be that original sin is the burden of possessing “painful” knowledge. The Garden of Eden was a peaceful gift until the Fall of Man. Original sin may simply be the inheritance of this knowledge juxtaposed with free will and the responsibilties thereof.
Maybe I can help .I’m somewhat new to the Church and Faith as well. I was an atheist for a long time and had the same question. about original sin. The forbidden fruit was from the tree of knowledge.Maybe an explanation could be that original sin is the burden of possessing “painful” knowledge. The Garden of Eden was a peaceful gift until the Fall of Man. Original sin may simply be the inheritance of this knowledge juxtaposed with free will and the responsibilties thereof.
T
tjmiller
Guest
Yes, we must believe in the existence of Adam and Eve. The New Testament Scriptures show us that Christ died to redeem us from our First Parents’ Fall.
If Adam and Eve were simply symbolic, then Jesus was either a madman or an idiot - for he thus died to save us from a mere figure of speech…
If Adam and Eve were simply symbolic, then Jesus was either a madman or an idiot - for he thus died to save us from a mere figure of speech…
C
Crumpy
Guest
The CCC somewhere says that although the language of Genesis is symbolic, the events it describes were real objective historical events.
Genesis was written to explain things, not necessarily to prove things – to put it one way. No one alive knows exactly what happened back then, how God worked this out.
No one should have any reservation about talking about “Adam” and “Eve” or even “Jesus” – certainly the Bible itself has no qualms about doing so.
Yaroslav Pelikan described the book of Genesis as explaining “who we are.” Because it provides so few details, people get oh-so hung up about it.
The whole bible is so wonderfully concise, even terse at times. Even short glimpses of people, like Adam and Eve, are so vivid and believable. The first chapter of the book of Ruth covers probably over twenty years in around twenty five verses. I don’t think that I’d be able to tell a story like that. Read what Ruth says. It’s right from the heart.
Perhaps writing materials were so precious, that stories that were passed along in oral traditions were remarkably summarized in ways to convey (generally) their exact meaning in so few words. As well, perhaps those stories were themselves condensed to forms that could more easily be remembered. And, let’s not forget the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.
O
OriginalJS
Guest
I thought Jesus died for all our sins so that all were forgiven.
L
Lazerlike42
Guest
Humani Generis teaches (to paraphrase) that it is very likely that Adam and Eve were real people. It says it a different way, but this is what it comes down to without getting to complicated.
L
Lazerlike42
Guest
He did. We have to receive that forgiveness personally, however (through baptism). Until then, we still are in the state of original sin (which does not mean we are guilty of anything).
L
Liberian
Guest
Ble,
(This is a hypothetical, made-up story. My real family is not like this.)
My grandfather was an industrialist who lived well, but not extravagantly. When he died, his estate was several million dollars.
My father was a wastrel who blew his father’s fortune completely. He died bankrupt.
Why don’t I get to inherit my grandfather’s millions? I live wisely and frugally, and it isn’t my fault at all that my father was so extravagant.
(This is a hypothetical, made-up story. My real family is not like this.)
My grandfather was an industrialist who lived well, but not extravagantly. When he died, his estate was several million dollars.
My father was a wastrel who blew his father’s fortune completely. He died bankrupt.
Why don’t I get to inherit my grandfather’s millions? I live wisely and frugally, and it isn’t my fault at all that my father was so extravagant.
- Liberian
D
Daniel_Marsh
Guest
So, could Adam and Eve simply be a teaching model?
P
patg
Guest
Daniel Marsh:
The author who chose to explore this question does not have the option of giving an historical explanation. He doesn’t know a historical explanation. The author makes it very evident that his genre is not historical by his obvious use of symbols.
Absolutely. There is no requirement whatsoever to believe it is anything other than a myth used to explore the nature and cause of suffering in the world.
The author who chose to explore this question does not have the option of giving an historical explanation. He doesn’t know a historical explanation. The author makes it very evident that his genre is not historical by his obvious use of symbols.
M
Mijoy2
Guest
Wow, imagine being able to enjoy the shear power and awe of a hurricane or some such natural wonder without having anyone fall victim to injury or property damage. I always get mixed emotion when threatened with a hurricane; on one hand I, of course, don’t wnat anyone to suffer in any way but on the other hand I get excited about the prospect of the expeience.
Being a boater I often imagine being out to sea in my realatively small boat during a big storm with some sort of a escape button that I could push just before I met my demise. Maybe if fortunate enough, God will grant me this silly little fantasy sometime. And maybe I won’t requirre the button
L
Lazerlike42
Guest
P
patg
Guest
Apparantly you missed the word “propose” (or misunderstood it). I repeat, there is no binding requirement that this story be understood in any literal historical way. The exploration of the causes of suffering in the world is a common old testament theme. To not understand this is to not understand the intent of the author.
L
Lazerlike42
Guest
This does not say that the doctrines of Original Sin are only proposed! The doctrines Original Sin are doctrines of the faith. If you read this the way you are suggesting, then the Catholic doctrine of Original Sin becomes only a suggestion, and not something taught infallibly and authoritatively.
In any event, this does not matter, because in the previous sentence the Holy Father writes,
“For the faithful cannot embrace that opinion which maintains that either after Adam there existed on this earth true men who did not take their origin through natural generation from him as from the first parent of all, or that Adam represents a certain number of first parents.”
He does not say anything that can be suggested as optional here. He very straightforward says that the faithful cannot embrace these beliefs, and in the sentence before that he says that the children of the Church do not enjoy that liberty.
Please note that if you disagree with me, you also disagree with Mr. Akin.
P
patg
Guest
Maybe there is just a miscommunication here. I am stating that the story of the couple in the garden is a symbolic story attempting to explain why there is suffering in the world.
You have not quoted anything which states that Catholics must believe that this story itself is history - we don’t have to believe (and are not encouraged to believe) that there was once a magic tree and that a talking snake convinced the first woman to eat its fruit, etc. Dei Verbum clearly allows us to consider the literary form of such stories and search for author’s intended meaning.
The doctrine of original sin is a teaching which is related to this story (and also to several others).
L
Lazerlike42
Guest
Catholics are required to believe that we descended from an original Adam, who was one individual man. That is what I am trying to say. Whether Adam came out of evolution, or whether Eve really took a fruit are questions which Catholics may differ on.
P
patg
Guest
I agree.
V
Veritas41
Guest
Didymus"I’ve wondered about that. Would we all be immortal if Adam & Eve had never sinned?
Presumably the laws of the physical world would be the same so there would still be hurricanes, earthquakes, &c.?"
Yes, we would be immortal if they had never sinned because death didn’t enter the world until after Adam’s sin --spiritual and physical death. Hurricanes and earthquakes wouldn’t have existed because they are a result of the fall of Adam – all of creation fell. There wasn’t even rain before the Flood (Genesis 2:5-6).
Presumably the laws of the physical world would be the same so there would still be hurricanes, earthquakes, &c.?"
Yes, we would be immortal if they had never sinned because death didn’t enter the world until after Adam’s sin --spiritual and physical death. Hurricanes and earthquakes wouldn’t have existed because they are a result of the fall of Adam – all of creation fell. There wasn’t even rain before the Flood (Genesis 2:5-6).
B
ble
Guest
Thanks everyone, there is a wealth of information on this thread for all age groups to understand “Original Sin”. Thanks again for all your help.
Warmest regards,
-Ben
Warmest regards,
-Ben
- Status