Original Sin - Would it have happened eventually?

[grannymh]

I will try to ask this question/s, and hope they makes sense…

Why do we blame Adam for the O.S, if we would have always needed to remain sinless ourselves?

I am having a hard time thinking good thoughts about Adam. :slapfight:
On the other hand, if Adam had freely chosen to obey God, the only thing we would need to worry about is our own personal sins. While our human nature would be intact, we still would be able to freely commit individual sins, even mortal ones…

If Adam had made the right choice, we would have been born with O.H and free of all unholy desires etc, but still would need to stay in union and obedience to God, which would have been easier to do as none of us would have been fallen?

Yes and no. We would be born in the state of Original Holiness and we would have mastery of self. (CCC, 377-379) But we could still have unholy desires just like Adam did.

So we don’t need Adam to be the fallen one if we would become fallen ourselves by rejecting God?

We need Adam regardless because he is our first parent. Because there was only one Adam and one Original Sin, our subsequent sins should not have the same result, fallen nature, as Adam’s sin. I am saying “should not have” because there appears to be only opinions as to what life would be if Adam had the guts to say no to temptation. Still, there could only be one sin which can be considered the Original sin…

When you say “we would become fallen ourselves by rejecting God?” My thought is that “fallen” would only be connected to Original Sin because that was the watershed so to speak. Subsequent rejections of God would be like individual mortal sins today.

As I was struggling with this explanation, I had the funny thought that Adam must have been good in some way in order for God to promise him a Redeemer. And/or God saw us in the future and loved us so much that He sent us Jesus. God’s love cannot be limited by His creatures so if God loved us, He must have loved Adam. Maybe I should have nicer thoughts about Adam.

P.S. Ynotzap’s previous post deserves to be re-read.

 

[simpleas]

I am having a hard time thinking good thoughts about Adam. :slapfight:
On the other hand, if Adam had freely chosen to obey God, the only thing we would need to worry about is our own personal sins. While our human nature would be intact, we still would be able to freely commit individual sins, even mortal ones…

Yes and no. We would be born in the state of Original Holiness and we would have mastery of self. (CCC, 377-379) But we could still have unholy desires just like Adam did.

We need Adam regardless because he is our first parent. Because there was only one Adam and one Original Sin, our subsequent sins should not have the same result, fallen nature, as Adam’s sin. I am saying “should not have” because there appears to be only opinions as to what life would be if Adam had the guts to say no to temptation. Still, there could only be one sin which can be considered the Original sin…

When you say “we would become fallen ourselves by rejecting God?” My thought is that “fallen” would only be connected to Original Sin because that was the watershed so to speak. Subsequent rejections of God would be like individual mortal sins today.

As I was struggling with this explanation, I had the funny thought that Adam must have been good in some way in order for God to promise him a Redeemer. And/or God saw us in the future and loved us so much that He sent us Jesus. God’s love cannot be limited by His creatures so if God loved us, He must have loved Adam. Maybe I should have nicer thoughts about Adam.

P.S. Ynotzap’s previous post deserves to be re-read.

Thanks for your thoughts.

*On the other hand, if Adam had freely chosen to obey God, the only thing we would need to worry about is our own personal sins. *

We do only worry about our own sins, because we are told that by baptism the O.S is removed, but the effects remain. The same effect/s Adam experienced when he too was free from the O.S…is that fair to say?

Yes and no

I’m not sure we could say that, it would have to be born with O.H or born with O.S is what I’m thinking.

We need Adam regardless because he is our first parent. Because there was only one Adam and one Original Sin, our subsequent sins should not have the same result, fallen nature, as Adam’s sin. I am saying “should not have” because there appears to be only opinions as to what life would be if Adam had the guts to say no to temptation. Still, there could only be one sin which can be considered the Original sin…

Yes I agree Adam and eve as first parents. The O.S was giving into temption? Something we all suffer from, even though O.S is wiped away at birth.

When you say “we would become fallen ourselves by rejecting God?” My thought is that “fallen” would only be connected to Original Sin because that was the watershed so to speak. Subsequent rejections of God would be like individual mortal sins today.

I mean, if we were to say, we were not born in a state of O.S, we were born good and innocent, when we come to the stage of our life when we know right from wrong, but choose to do something which breaks a commandment of God, we would “fall” by ourselves, not having to think we need blame our first parents for our nature.

As I was struggling with this explanation, I had the funny thought that Adam must have been good in some way in order for God to promise him a Redeemer. And/or God saw us in the future and loved us so much that He sent us Jesus. God’s love cannot be limited by His creatures so if God loved us, He must have loved Adam. Maybe I should have nicer thoughts about Adam.

I think God did love Adam, if he didn’t and was so offended by what he did and how the world would progress I think he may have just rid the world of his human creatures, but as we are made in his image, I couldn’t think of God destroying us at any point in history.

 

[grannymh]

Thanks for your thoughts.

*On the other hand, if Adam had freely chosen to obey God, the only thing we would need to worry about is our own personal sins. *

We do only worry about our own sins, because we are told that by baptism the O.S is removed, but the effects remain. The same effect/s Adam experienced when he too was free from the O.S…is that fair to say?

Yes and no

I’m not sure we could say that, it would have to be born with O.H or born with O.S is what I’m thinking.

We need Adam regardless because he is our first parent. Because there was only one Adam and one Original Sin, our subsequent sins should not have the same result, fallen nature, as Adam’s sin. I am saying "should not have" because there appears to be only opinions as to what life would be if Adam had the guts to say no to temptation. Still, there could only be one sin which can be considered the Original sin…

Yes I agree Adam and eve as first parents. The O.S was giving into temption? Something we all suffer from, even though O.S is wiped away at birth.

When you say “we would become fallen ourselves by rejecting God?” My thought is that “fallen” would only be connected to Original Sin because that was the watershed so to speak. Subsequent rejections of God would be like individual mortal sins today.

I mean, if we were to say, we were not born in a state of O.S, we were born good and innocent, when we come to the stage of our life when we know right from wrong, but choose to do something which breaks a commandment of God, we would “fall” by ourselves, not having to think we need blame our first parents for our nature.

As I was struggling with this explanation, I had the funny thought that Adam must have been good in some way in order for God to promise him a Redeemer. And/or God saw us in the future and loved us so much that He sent us Jesus. God’s love cannot be limited by His creatures so if God loved us, He must have loved Adam. Maybe I should have nicer thoughts about Adam.

I think God did love Adam, if he didn’t and was so offended by what he did and how the world would progress I think he may have just rid the world of his human creatures, but as we are made in his image, I couldn’t think of God destroying us at any point in history.