I considered my interpretation very basic and simple. No elaborate theological justifications. Juts the nuts and bolts of the text. I don’t disagree with your interpretation; it just doesn’t address the point any longer.No one denies that God knew the fall would occur; He couldn’t do otherwise-He’s God after all. But I think you make the story too complicated. The lesson of the fall is simply that when creation is out of order with Gods will, discord, strife, and disharmony occur. But only when creation possesses free will can this take place. It may not matter how perfect -on some relative scale- God made man; man still isn’t God. But God wants man to be like Him-to place his whole being on the side of love and to experience the sheer joy and beauty of that knowledge.
I don’t see how your “perfect” creations are the archetypal first sinning beings. You seem to be arguing a contradiction.Hi larkin,
No, God did not make anything imperfect. He did not make the snake “symbol” of the devil, who is called many various names in the Bible.
God made everything “good” - including the angels. However, Lucifer, and 1/3 of the angels, did not want to be with God. Lucifer wanted to be mightier and greater than God, (sin of Pride) so he along with the other prideful angels were forced from heaven. These are the fallen angels (known as demons) and Lucifer (who was the most beautiful angel - and whose named means “lightbearer”, became known as Satan, the devil, the serpent, the snake, the great dragon, and so on…Adam and Eve had full grace to resist temptation, however, they too wanted more than God gave them, even though they had everything. That is the sin of greed and pride.
Their (the fallen angels and fallen humans) sin of pride introduced evil into the world. God did not. God allows evil to exist, and we have the free will and the intelligence to resist. However, I believe no one at any time in their life will be 100 % obedient, thus we all sin (as St Paul taught), (exceptions: children under a certain age, those whose mental capacities are childlike, and Mary.)
blessings,
CEM
This is irrelevant to the point - God made free will - free will is the cause of Evil. God is still the first cause. It was his will that gave free will. He wanted Evil to exist or it wouldn’t exist.God is not going to force people to love him and want to be with him. God did not make us robots.
This is false.This is irrelevant to the point - God made free will - free will is the cause of Evil. God is still the first cause. It was his will that gave free will. He wanted Evil to exist or it wouldn’t exist.
God’s “perfect” creations pretty much sinned right away, and God immediately punished them and their progeny for eternity with suffering, pain, toil, and death–almost to suggest that God was surprised and angered. With that set-up, either God did not make that first couple strong enough, or God made that temptation and that serpent too much to bear.This is false.
Disobedience is the cause of evil.
Obedience would have prevented evil.
Nothing in the text of Genesis actual states a timeline. This is pure speculation.God’s “perfect” creations pretty much sinned right away,
Exactly as the consequences, spelled out ahead of time, were necessary. These should have been taken into account when the decision was made.and God immediately punished them and their progeny for eternity with suffering, pain, toil, and death
Pure presumption on your part.–almost to suggest that God was surprised and angered.
they were strong enough, they chose not to use it to resist the temptation.With that set-up, either God did not make that first couple strong enough,
False dicotomy.or God made that temptation and that serpent too much to bear.
The only way that Disobedience is possible is free will. God made disobedience possible though free will. If God didn’t want evil he won’t have made the Angels that fell, nor man nor free will.This is false.
Disobedience is the cause of evil.
Obedience would have prevented evil.
Why do you keep telling us what God should have done. What special knowledge do you have that God doesn’t have? And how can you you presume to know what is better?The only way that Disobedience is possible is free will. God made disobedience possible though free will. If God didn’t want evil he won’t have made the Angels that fell, nor man nor free will.
No, you are not just saying what He did. You are also telling us what His motivations were. As in “He must have wanted evil because” statement above. How could you possibly know this? It is clear to me that you don’t really understand what it is your are arguing against.I’m not saying what He’s supposed to do. I saying what He did. I’m saying He must have wanted evil because it was the consequence of what HE did.
Not unlike - He must have wanted Man because He made Man.
From the written Word of God (selections of Genesis chapters 1 and 2), here some of Gods intentions. None these say anything about wanting evil. You claim to the contrary is without merit.Though His actions We can see intent.
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness; and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps upon the earth.”
And God blessed them, and God said to them, "Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth and subdue it; and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the air and over every living thing that moves upon the earth
And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, “You may freely eat of every tree of the garden;
but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall die.”
I don’t think he really wanted evil. He wanted mankind to understand that they weren’t gods and that we need to rely totally on Him for our salvation.Though His actions We can see intent.
Because God is all good. Evil comes from turning away from good. If you look into yourself you will know that is true.I just don’t see it - Evil was a consequence of the creation of man and the devil, both given free will. How can something happen without God’s willing it to happen.
The only way for evil to exist is to turn away from the Will of God!God is All Good but allows evil to happen. - Agreed?
We can see evil in the world, the bible tells us it exists, the Church tells us it exists, As a Privation - Agreed?
The way that evil makes into the world is through a turning away from God - Agreed?
The only to turn away from God is Free Will? Agreed?
God Gave us Free Will ( and the Angels) - Agreed?
Adam and Lucifer Turned away from God - Agreed?
So the only way for evil to exist is through the will of God. If he didn’t will the structure for evil to manifest it wouldn’t exist.
I’m not questioning if God Loves us or God is Good.
Yes but then you turned around on yourself and said that God wills Evil. How can Evil turn against itself? If you think God is Good how can He be Evil? Your argument is flawed.Yes, I stated that in line 3.