Origonal Sin Question

[HickmanJosh]

I am in conversation with a protestant and the protestant wants more citations (or references) to Original sin in the New Testament. I don’t know where to find them (or how to raise a definitive counterargument) so any help would be appreciated!

 

[TimothyH]

Romans 5 comes to mind.

Therefore, just as through one person sin entered the world, and through sin, death, and thus death came to all… (Romans 5:12)

The several verses that follow build on this verse.

What’s his beef with original sin? I thought the inherited original sin of Adam is a fairly universal Christian doctrine.

-Tim-

 

[CountrySteve]

Romans 5 comes to mind.

Therefore, just as through one person sin entered the world, and through sin, death, and thus death came to all… (Romans 5:12)

The several verses that follow build on this verse.

What’s his beef with original sin? I thought the inherited original sin of Adam is a fairly universal Christian doctrine.

-Tim-

shoot man theirs so much corruption now a days like i read a story about a formal nun who started their own house church and they were so anti-catholic that they denied the Holy Trinity itself

 

[Little_One0307]

Hi,

Got a couple more citations.

Romans 5:12-19 - as mentioned - All humans beings affected by the sin of the first man

Fallen man’s dispositions to sin: - Romans 7:13-25

Universality of sin among humanity: - Romans 3:9-12, 22-23

The following were quotes I pulled from Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma by Ludwig Ott

The OT contains references to orginal sin: Psalm 50:7: “For behold I was conceived in iniquities: and in sins did my mother conceive me.” Job 14:4: “Who can make him clean that is conceived unclean.” Both passages speak of an inborn sinfulness whether this be understood in the sense of habitual sin or merely of the inclination to sin, but do not bring this into causal connection with the sin of Adam. The causal connection between the death of all mankind and the sin of our First Parents [orginal death] is however, clearly stated in the OT. See Ecclesiastes 25:33, and Wisdome 2:24.

The passage which constains the classical prro is Romans 5:12-21 in which the Apostle draws a parallel between the first Adam, from whom sin and death are transmitted to all humanity, and Christ, the second Adam, from whom justice and life are transmitted to all men.​

Hope this helps. God Bless.

 

[HickmanJosh]

Basically the whole thing was over infant baptism and that original sin was non-existent and baptism should only be preformed on a willing participant. Essentially this has been the discussion on an online group.(some statements have been edited for length and to not (potentially) infringe on this sites regulations)
person x:

once your old enough baptism is cool

Person y:

i don’t get why Catholics do infant baptism They are born with no sin and the bible says so

Me:

I am not sure but i definitely think that infant baptism was done on babies because as Christ said baptism is necessary for salvation and even a few centuries ago many died in childhood. Also baptism is necessary (at least by Catholic teaching) because of original sin, or inheritance from the first parents. …

Plus since the early Church there has been another sacrament called confirmation which confirms baptism and calls down the Holy Spirit anew. It is unfortunetly that Christianity has been divided so badly, from the schism in the tenth century to the protestant reformation in the sixteenth. I cirtanly hope Christ’s Church can be united once more and stand against the works of Satan united.

person y:

It says in the bible that babys are born without sin no where does it say a child inherits the parents sin. a person is responsible for their own sin. and also men can’t forgive sins, no man should be before Him

I go to the orginal church witch was created by christ himself which is known as the church of christ. Many believe we are a branch off of catholics but it has been proven by the bible the church of christ was formed first.

I do pray we will be united as one as well but i dont know if god agrees with some of the ways some branches worship im not he so i can not judge that only he the lord can himself

Me:

The earliest know reference to the Catholic Church is 110 AD. Protestantism, developed a millenia and a half later, historical fact. The Bible was complied by the Catholic Church in the third and fourth centuries it decided witch books to include and which to exclude, without the catholic church, no bible. That again is historical fact.

(i was probably a little stupid in this one)
person y:

Still contradicts the bible which has been around longer than the catholics historical fact found in the bible

“and i also say to you that you are peter and on this rock i will build my church and the gates of hades shall not prevail against it” matt 16:18

person z:

Where in the Bible does it say children are born with out sin?

When I say age does not matter - I mean it should not be a splitting point in which Christians get to bickering and not getting Christs works done…

“for there are eunuchs who were aorn thus from their mothers womb and there are eunuchs who were made eunuchs by men and there are eunuch who have made themselves eunuchr for the kingdom of heavens sake. HE WHO IS ABLE TO ACCEPT IT LET THEM ACCEPT IT” matt 18:12

me:

Actually the Greek for acts 2:38 says: “Metanoesate kai bapistheto hekastos hymon.” which means: "If you repent, then each one who is a part of you and yours must each be baptized” which would include family, and thus children. Also there are several instances in the Gospels where the faith of friends or parents brought healing and forgiveness for sins (Matt 9:2,and again in Mark 2,and Matt 8) This is exactly what happens in infant baptism. Original sin: (1Corinthians 15:21, Romans 5, Psalm 51:5, Job 14: 1,4, Gen 3: 14-19) (original sin is that sin which passes to all men) Also if Acts 2:39 is read “For the promise is made to you and to your children and to all those far off, whomever the Lord our God will call.” references: scripturecatholic.com/baptism.html#baptism-III catholicapologetics.info/apologetics/general/original.htm

Person y:

1 cor 15:21 “for since by man came death by man also came the resurrection of the dead” no origonal sin

Psalm 51:5 “behold i was brought forth in inquiry. And in sin my mother concieved me” meaning a child was born out of wedlock not orgional sin

i wish to see more scriptures of original sin in the new testament for the old was over ruled after jesus was born. Old testament is sapose to be used as referance not as law. If that was true we would still not be able to eat unclean meat

“the law and the prophets were until john. Since that time the kingdom of god has been preached and everyone is pressing into it”

“and it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for 1 title of the law to fail.” luke 16:16-17

i want (would like) to see more references to original sin in NT

the ones you have already stated have little to do with NT original sin

 

[Link0126]

scripturecatholic.com/baptism.html#baptism-V

Furthermore, baptism as explained by Paul I believe in the scriptures is an archtype for circumsicsion which was performed on the child at 8 days old as a sign that they were entered into the old covenant. Baptism thus, was always meant for infants as their initiation into the new covenant. You are simply dealing with people who do not really understand the covenants. The early Church is clear that baptism is essential.

“But in respect of the case of the infants, which you say ought not to be baptized within the second or third day after their birth, and that the law of ancient circumcision should be regarded, so that you think one who is just born should not be baptized and sanctified within the eighth day…And therefore, dearest brother, this was our opinion in council, that by us no one ought to be hindered from baptism…we think is to be even more observed in respect of infants and newly-born persons…” Cyprian, To Fidus, Epistle 58(64):2, 6 (A.D. 251).

“Likewise, whosoever says that those children who depart out of this life without partaking of that sacrament shall be made alive in Christ, certainly contradicts the apostolic declaration, and condemns the universal Church, in which it is the practice to lose no time and run in haste to administer baptism to infant children, because it is believed, as an indubitable truth, that otherwise they cannot be made alive in Christ.”
Augustine, Epistle 167,7,21 (A.D. 415).