orthdox church

[littletherese3]

when did the orthodox churches begin?

 

[Milliardo]

Depends on who you talk to; for the Orthodox, the Orthodox Church began from the Apostles onwards. For Catholics, the Orthodox Church began in 1054. So, it depends.

 

[Hesychios]

when did the orthodox churches begin?

With Christ Jesus, Our Lord and His Apostles and Disciples at Pentacost.

I am not stating this to in some way exclude the Catholic West from this, we share a common origin and therefore neither can be seen to have ‘begun’ at some point other than the true beginning of Christianity.

It should be recognized that the Orthodox did in no way secede from the Catholic Faith, consciously or not, deliberately or not; and introduced no new doctrines or practices to initiate the breakup. You can verify this with your own independent study.

Somewhere out there in cyberspace you can also find the text of the Bull of excommunication Cardinals Humbert and Frederic placed upon the altar of Hagia Sophia (it has been posted here before). The Bull itself is usually repudiated by Catholic apologists today as actually being invalid! This event was really part of the Gregorian Reformation, when monastics from northern Europe were attempting to free the western church from the dominance of civil powers (a noble idea) and concentrate this power in the office of the Papacy (an unprecedented and uncanonical change).

For its part the Orthodox at Constantinople excommunicated the Cardinals in reply, but no one else. Both parties continued on as before, maintaining the status quo: Orthodox churches within their own diocesan bounds and the Catholic churches within their own diocesan bounds.

As a sidebar, prior to the break at 1054 there were occasional conflicts in mission territory (such as central Europe) between the missioners of the “Methodian Rite” (the Greeks) and the Latin Rite (the Franks). Frankish power was expanding into the weaker central European principalities and this often resulted in the wholesale transforming of Greek Rite dioceses and parishes into Latin dioceses and parishes. Since this happened while the two sides were technically still one church, it cannot be said that this chiseling away at the Eastern church structure was converting, it was more like administrative changes from one patriarch to another (albeit of a forced nature).

Eventually the Papacy began planting missions in Orthodox dioceses where they lacked the political power to actually take over and transform Orthodox Greek churches into Latin ones. The era of the Crusades opened a window of opportunity to replace Orthodox bishops with Latin bishops, under the police power of the crusader armies. This is fundamentally the beginning of the two groups seeing each other as different churches, and naturally as rivals.

It should be noted that in this period of history the Orthodox did not likewise plant missions in the west to coax Catholics away from the Papal churches, it is not part of the ecclesiology of Orthodox to poach on one another’s’ territory, and it is a violation of the ancient canons. The Orthodox did not even attempt to take advantage of major crises in the west, such as the three-way schism, or the Hussite reform or the Protestant rebellion. These were left for the Latin church to resolve as internal matters, not as opportunities for Orthodox to expand.

In more modern times the Orthodox have been building churches in Europe initially to tend to the needs of their people who have migrated, and some additional number of converts.

Michael

 

[ralphinal]

With Christ Jesus, Our Lord and His Apostles and Disciples at Pentacost.

I am not stating this to in some way exclude the Catholic West from this, we share a common origin and therefore neither can be seen to have ‘begun’ at some point other than the true beginning of Christianity.

It should be recognized that the Orthodox did in no way secede from the Catholic Faith, consciously or not, deliberately or not; and introduced no new doctrines or practices to initiate the breakup. You can verify this with your own independent study.

Somewhere out there in cyberspace you can also find the text of the Bull of excommunication Cardinals Humbert and Frederic placed upon the altar of Hagia Sophia (it has been posted here before). The Bull itself is usually repudiated by Catholic apologists today as actually being invalid! This event was really part of the Gregorian Reformation, when monastics from northern Europe were attempting to free the western church from the dominance of civil powers (a noble idea) and concentrate this power in the office of the Papacy (an unprecedented and uncanonical change).

For its part the Orthodox at Constantinople excommunicated the Cardinals in reply, but no one else. Both parties continued on as before, maintaining the status quo: Orthodox churches within their own diocesan bounds and the Catholic churches within their own diocesan bounds.

As a sidebar, prior to the break at 1054 there were occasional conflicts in mission territory (such as central Europe) between the missioners of the “Methodian Rite” (the Greeks) and the Latin Rite (the Franks). Frankish power was expanding into the weaker central European principalities and this often resulted in the wholesale transforming of Greek Rite dioceses and parishes into Latin dioceses and parishes. Since this happened while the two sides were technically still one church, it cannot be said that this chiseling away at the Eastern church structure was converting, it was more like administrative changes from one patriarch to another (albeit of a forced nature).

Eventually the Papacy began planting missions in Orthodox dioceses where they lacked the political power to actually take over and transform Orthodox Greek churches into Latin ones. The era of the Crusades opened a window of opportunity to replace Orthodox bishops with Latin bishops, under the police power of the crusader armies. This is fundamentally the beginning of the two groups seeing each other as different churches, and naturally as rivals.

It should be noted that in this period of history the Orthodox did not likewise plant missions in the west to coax Catholics away from the Papal churches, it is not part of the ecclesiology of Orthodox to poach on one another’s’ territory, and it is a violation of the ancient canons. The Orthodox did not even attempt to take advantage of major crises in the west, such as the three-way schism, or the Hussite reform or the Protestant rebellion. These were left for the Latin church to resolve as internal matters, not as opportunities for Orthodox to expand.

In more modern times the Orthodox have been building churches in Europe initially to tend to the needs of their people who have migrated, and some additional number of converts.

Michael

Aboslutely excellent!! Wonderful history lession with little anti-Latin rhetoric

 

[Ignatius]

With Christ Jesus, Our Lord and His Apostles and Disciples at Pentacost.

The Orthodox Churche started when some of the Eastern churches separated from The Catholic Church in 1054. For sometime prior to this, relations with the some of the Eastern Patriarchs had been bitter, due to political, linguistic and ecclesiastical disputes. Michael Cerularius, Patriarch of Constantinople, heightened the conflict by suppressing the Latin churches within his domain.

 

[Hesychios]

…Michael Cerularius, Patriarch of Constantinople, heightened the conflict by suppressing the Latin churches within his domain.

The Latin churches within the Byzantine Catholic Patriarchate of Constantinople were his to administer as the Local Ordinary, he was within his rights to close them. This did not deny anyone the sacraments, they were free to receive in the Eastern Rite parishes in every neighborhood.

This particular action of which you write today was a response to the suppression of Byzantine Catholic churches in southern Italy, recently acquired territories of the Normans.

This happened to be the exact same process the Latin church had followed for the previous two hundred years or more, as it transformed Byzantine Catholic parishes and entire dioceses in Italy, southern Poland, Czech and Slovak lands into Latin ones. Those priests who did not cooperate were forcibly expelled and their parishes locked. See the interesting story of a Catholic saint who was victim of this process here…

Obviously, your contention that the Orthodox Catholic church “began” at such and such a date is a polemical reinterpreting of church history and not worth taking seriously. I can only wonder at your motivation for doing so, but I don’t blame you as much as the disreputable sources you are probably accessing which could skew your thinking.

Michael

 

[mercygate]

when did the orthodox churches begin?

Same time the Catholic church began. The split was not like the protestant break. They have authentic Orders and sacraments.

 

[chrisb]

With Christ Jesus, Our Lord and His Apostles and Disciples at Pentacost.

I am not stating this to in some way exclude the Catholic West from this, we share a common origin and therefore neither can be seen to have ‘begun’ at some point other than the true beginning of Christianity.

It should be recognized that the Orthodox did in no way secede from the Catholic Faith, consciously or not, deliberately or not; and introduced no new doctrines or practices to initiate the breakup. You can verify this with your own independent study.

Somewhere out there in cyberspace you can also find the text of the Bull of excommunication Cardinals Humbert and Frederic placed upon the altar of Hagia Sophia (it has been posted here before). The Bull itself is usually repudiated by Catholic apologists today as actually being invalid! This event was really part of the Gregorian Reformation, when monastics from northern Europe were attempting to free the western church from the dominance of civil powers (a noble idea) and concentrate this power in the office of the Papacy (an unprecedented and uncanonical change).

For its part the Orthodox at Constantinople excommunicated the Cardinals in reply, but no one else. Both parties continued on as before, maintaining the status quo: Orthodox churches within their own diocesan bounds and the Catholic churches within their own diocesan bounds.

As a sidebar, prior to the break at 1054 there were occasional conflicts in mission territory (such as central Europe) between the missioners of the “Methodian Rite” (the Greeks) and the Latin Rite (the Franks). Frankish power was expanding into the weaker central European principalities and this often resulted in the wholesale transforming of Greek Rite dioceses and parishes into Latin dioceses and parishes. Since this happened while the two sides were technically still one church, it cannot be said that this chiseling away at the Eastern church structure was converting, it was more like administrative changes from one patriarch to another (albeit of a forced nature).

Eventually the Papacy began planting missions in Orthodox dioceses where they lacked the political power to actually take over and transform Orthodox Greek churches into Latin ones. The era of the Crusades opened a window of opportunity to replace Orthodox bishops with Latin bishops, under the police power of the crusader armies. This is fundamentally the beginning of the two groups seeing each other as different churches, and naturally as rivals.

It should be noted that in this period of history the Orthodox did not likewise plant missions in the west to coax Catholics away from the Papal churches, it is not part of the ecclesiology of Orthodox to poach on one another’s’ territory, and it is a violation of the ancient canons. The Orthodox did not even attempt to take advantage of major crises in the west, such as the three-way schism, or the Hussite reform or the Protestant rebellion. These were left for the Latin church to resolve as internal matters, not as opportunities for Orthodox to expand.

In more modern times the Orthodox have been building churches in Europe initially to tend to the needs of their people who have migrated, and some additional number of converts.

Michael

Grace and Peace Michael,

Thank you for your kindness and sensitivity you have expressed in your post. God Bless you and give you many years! Amen.

Pax.