ortho-cathlidoxy

  • Thread starter Thread starter mark_a
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
The Cathechism is a fairly weighty document. Most of us have jobs, spouses, children and other commitments that mean we don’t have the time for researching the source documents. The CCC is heavily footnoted so the appropriate documents can be sourced if wished or at least you know where the teaching has it basis / been stated before.

When I was preparing for reception into full communion my priest gave me… a copy of the Cathechism.

Quite frankly, as JP II has stated the CCC is a ‘sure norm for teaching the faith’ I know that if I reference the CCC I will read Church teaching:thumbsup:

From the Apostolic Constitution

On that occasion the Synod Fathers stated: "Very many have expressed the desire that a catechism or compendium of all Catholic doctrine regarding both faith and morals be composed, that it might be, as it were, a point of reference for the catechisms or compendiums that are prepared in various regions.
It can be said that this Catechism is the result of the collaboration of the whole Episcopate of the Catholic Church,

A catechism should faithfully and systematically present the teaching of Sacred Scripture, the living Tradition in the Church and the authentic Magisterium, as well as the spiritual heritage of the Fathers, Doctors and saints of the Church, to allow for a better knowledge of the Christian mystery

** The Catechism of the Catholic Church, which I approved 25 June last and the publication of which I today order by virtue of my Apostolic Authority, is a statement of the Church’s faith and of catholic doctrine, attested to or illumined by Sacred Scripture, the Apostolic Tradition and the Church’s Magisterium. I declare it to be a sure norm for teaching the faith and thus a valid and legitimate instrument for ecclesial communion. **

**be a sure and authentic reference text for teaching catholic doctrine **

**The Catechism of the Catholic Church, lastly, is offered to every individual who asks us to give an account of the hope that is in us (cf. I Pt 3:15) and who wants to know what the Catholic Church believes. **

From the prologue
11 This catechism aims at presenting an organic synthesis of the essential and fundamental contents of Catholic doctrine, as regards both faith and morals, in the light of the Second Vatican Council and the whole of the Church’s Tradition. Its principal sources are the Sacred Scriptures, the Fathers of the Church, the liturgy, and the Church’s Magisterium. It is intended to serve "as a point of reference for the catechisms or compendia that are composed in the various countries".

(My Bold)

To take the example of EENS, the CCC is quite clear

CCC 847 - This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:
Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation

CCC 838 - The Church knows that she is joined in many ways to the baptized who are honored by the name of Christian, but do not profess the Catholic faith in its entirety or have not preserved unity or communion under the successor of Peter."[322] Those “who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in a certain, although imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church.”[323]

CONTINUED
 
Both of these reference Lumen Gentium. Robert Burns OP pointed out that

“no responsible Catholic theologian would publicly deny them (Vat II documents) as teachings of the Church”

And JPII has endorsed the CCC as ‘a sure norm for teaching the faith’.

So really the so called EENS ‘traditionalists’ who try to damn everyone outside the visible Catholic Church (in communion with Rome) really don’t have a leg to stand on. They can try to use their own interpretations of isolated Florence and Unam Sanctam quotes until they are blue in the face. They are on there own. The Pope, Bishops, and clergy do not endorse their point of view. Which they are entitled to of course.
 
JGC said:
**The Catechism of the Catholic Church… is a statement of the Church’s faith and of catholic doctrine, attested to or illumined by Sacred Scripture, the Apostolic Tradition and the Church’s Magisterium. I declare it to be a sure norm for teaching the faith and thus a valid and legitimate instrument for ecclesial communion. **
Click to expand...

But it seems to have gone all wishywashy on masturbation and it is not sure and clear at all if it is considered a mortal sin any longer. Younger clergy quote the Catechism to say that it is not recommended but it is not a mortal sin either.

The Orthodox state clearly that it is sinful
oca.org/pages/orth_chri/Q-and-A_OLD/masturbation.html
 
Fr Ambrose:
But it seems to have gone all wishywashy on masturbation and it is not sure and clear at all if it is considered a mortal sin any longer. Younger clergy quote the Catechism to say that it is not recommended but it is not a mortal sin either.

The Orthodox state clearly that it is sinful
oca.org/pages/orth_chri/Q-and-A_OLD/masturbation.html
Click to expand...
I think intrinsically and **gravely disorded **action is a little stronger than ‘not recomended’ !

(CCC 2352)
 
Fr Ambrose:
But it seems to have gone all wishywashy on masturbation and it is not sure and clear at all if it is considered a mortal sin any longer.
Click to expand...
What has this to do with anything we are discussing on this thread? Really, Father, please try to stay with us here; the discussions are going to be completely impassible if you keep insisting on this stream-of-consciousness approach to conversation. :tsktsk:

😉
 
Fr Ambrose:
But it seems to have gone all wishywashy on masturbation and it is not sure and clear at all if it is considered a mortal sin any longer. Younger clergy quote the Catechism to say that it is not recommended but it is not a mortal sin either.
Click to expand...
Here is what the Catechism has to say on masturbation . . .

2352 By masturbation is to be understood the deliberate stimulation of the genital organs in order to derive sexual pleasure. “Both the Magisterium of the Church, in the course of a constant tradition, and the moral sense of the faithful have been in no doubt and have firmly maintained that masturbation is an intrinsically and gravely disordered action.” “The deliberate use of the sexual faculty, for whatever reason, outside of marriage is essentially contrary to its purpose.” For here sexual pleasure is sought outside of “the sexual relationship which is demanded by the moral order and in which the total meaning of mutual self-giving and human procreation in the context of true love is achieved.”

To form an equitable judgment about the subjects’ moral responsibility and to guide pastoral action, one must take into account the affective immaturity, force of acquired habit, conditions of anxiety or other psychological or social factors that lessen, if not even reduce to a minimum, moral culpability.

2396 Among the sins gravely contrary to chastity are masturbation, fornication, pornography, and homosexual practices. (Emphasis added.)

Does not seem wishy-washy to me, but people can twist any teaching, however clear, to their own demise.

And yes, this is leaning towards “off-topic” for this thread, but oh well.

In the Hearts of Jesus and Mary.
 
40.png
whosebob:
Here is what the Catechism has to say on masturbation . . .
Click to expand...
Dear Michael,

Thanks you for this. The Catholic clergy and religious teachers in schools (not all, but many) are focusing on CCC 2352 and saying that masturbation is a problem in the psychological realm and not the moral realm. In other words it is a personal disorder but not a sin. They quote 2352 to demonstrate this.

Now that you have brought in CCC 2396 it becomes clear that either they have not read all the Catechism or they prefer to overlook 2396.
 
Fr Ambrose:
Dear Michael, Thanks you for this . . . Now that you have brought in CCC 2396 it becomes clear that either they have not read all the Catechism or they prefer to overlook 2396.
Click to expand...
My secret identity . . . gone . . . forever.

You’re quite welcome. By the way, it was easy to find:

Visit this online edition of the Catechism, type “masturbation” in the Search the Catechism of the Catholic Church form field, and click the “Search” button.

I wanted to share one other thought with you and then I’ll stop beating this same dead horse . . . for a while anyway:

A friend of mine who is new to teaching the Faith in an official capacity was at first dismayed when I suggested to him in our conversation two months ago that he read the CCC from cover to cover.

You see, he’s had a nice hardcover edition of the Catechism on his bookshelf since it was first printed; but he’s always struggled with it as he’s felt a bit overwhelmed when diving into large “chunks” of it in search of good background material and references.

I suggested he try the “8 numbered paragraphs per day, starting with #1” plan, while keeping his web browser handy in order to look up unfamiliar words and names. And in a moment of inspiration I suggested something that I really feel is true, looking back after joyfully slugging my way through it all (almost) – the CCC is kind of like a symphony. The later and more “advanced” sections, which are what most people turn to, especially those deailing with morality, are like having all the instruments in the orchestra playing at the same time in harmony, and well symphony. And the editors of the Catechism, I think, wrote it that way deliberately and necessarily.

If you read through Parts 1 and 2, it is like hearing different groups of instruments playing in their own right: there are the french horns, and over there the violins, some other stringed instruments over here, etc.

By the time you hit Parts 3 and 4, all of the “instruments” are “playing together.” And in practical terms, this means the reading can be a bit daunting or really confusing if you lack familiary with the material that precedes it.

Well, my friend is a music lover and he liked the analogy. So far, he’s been reading along at a good clip and is happy finally to be getting it straight from the horse’s mouth, so to speak. Those men and women he will be instructing in the coming years will probably benefit more than anyone else from his present efforts.

In the Hearts of Jesus and Mary.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top