Orthodox and Coptic Liturgy

[TRAD1936]

This may be the wrong forum in which to ask this question but I will ask anyway. In the Coptic and Orthodox Liturgies does the Priest face the people as in the Latin Rite these days or does he face the Altar and hence face east during the consecration and prayers directed specifically by the Priest to God. It is my understanding that most Orthodox and Coptic Churches are built in an east/ west direction. I know that in many Eastern Catholic Churches the Rites have been Latinized to a great degree and I was just wondering what the current practice in the Orthodox and Coptic Churches is.

 

[malphono]

This may be the wrong forum in which to ask this question but I will ask anyway. In the Coptic and Orrthodox Liturgies does the Priest face the people as in the Latin Rite these days or does he face the Altar and hence face east during the consecration and prayers directed specifically by the Priest to God. It is my understanding that most Orthodox and Coptic Churches are built in an east/ west direction. I know that in many Eastern Catholic Churches the Rites have been Latinized to a great degree and I was just wondering what the current practice in the Orthodox and Coptic Churches is.

Those are all ad orientem. The Chaldeans were affected by the versus poplum taint, but within the past couple of years the Holy Synod has restored ad orientem. The taint of versus populum still, unfortunately, infects the Maronites and the Syro-Malabars.

 

[TRAD1936]

Those are all ad orientem. The Chaldeans were affected by the versus poplum taint, but within the past couple of years the Holy Synod has restored ad orientem. The taint of versus populum still, unfortunately, infects the Maronites and the Syro-Malabars.

Thank you very much. I was having a discussion with a friend of mine in which he claimed that the Priest having his back to the congregation was an innovation that occurred sometime in the 1100’s or thereabout and that prior to that time the Liturgy was celebrated with the Priest facing the congregation in what he termed was a communal consecration and that was what the Church was trying to re-instate after Vatican II…

If I am correct, the Coptics separated from the Church in the 400’s and the Orthodox in 1000 or so, or as they would probably say the Latin Rite separated from them. Whichever is correct it was tragic in the extreme. Since both of those Churches retain the ad orientem posture it would seem logical that it was the practice of the Universal Church at least as early as the 400’s and probably earlier.

May you have Gods peace in your life

 

[dzheremi]

Here is a video of the Coptic Orthodox liturgy (St. Basil) filmed at the Heavenly Cathedral in Sharm El Sheikh, celebrated in English: youtube.com/watch?v=aVFgnHHOWHc

The description says it is complete, but it seems shorter than the other Coptic liturgies I’ve found.

 

[ConstantineTG]

Here is a video of the Coptic Orthodox liturgy (St. Basil) filmed at the Heavenly Cathedral in Sharm El Sheikh, celebrated in English: youtube.com/watch?v=aVFgnHHOWHc

The description says it is complete, but it seems shorter than the other Coptic liturgies I’ve found.

Off topic: I didn’t know you can upload such a long video on YouTube

But this is great to watch this, especially in English.

edit:
Why did a plain-clothes guy suddenly walk across the sanctuary behind the Holy Table at around the 4:30 mark?

 

[dzheremi]

Wow, I hadn’t noticed that guy before! Hmm. It looks like he takes some sort of tripod back with him…maybe he’s part of the camera crew filming the liturgy for Aghapy TV? I really don’t know. Weird.

 

[Cecilianus]

The Byzantine Liturgy is celebrated ad orientem with the priest’s back to the congregation, and it is a 4th-century Liturgy. There is just one point in the Liturgy when the priest walks around in back of the altar and faces the congregation, but throughout almost all of it (including the Consecration, of course) he is facing East.

You will also read in St. John Damascene’s On the Orthodox Faith that Christians always pray East.

Your friend that told you that facing East is a 12th-century innovation is very, very mistaken. The only example of a priest facing the people in the early Church was in Roman basilicas, which were traditionally built facing West - and then the congregation would turn around and face East with their backs to the altar and to the priest. My understanding is that the Maronites never faced the congregation either, with all due respect to another post-VII Roman claim.

 

[Addai]

The liturgy of St. James was also largely done facing the East.

“…And it’s a wonderful liturgy, because the truth of the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ in the Eucharist is held before the people. It’s celebrated. The deacons, when they invite the people to pray, face the people. They do not face the east. Much of the early liturgy as we know was celebrated on the solea, and it was only at the Eucharist itself that the priest and his deacons went to the altar and served the holy meal. Many of these elements are still in the Liturgy of St. James because the gospel book is actually brought at the time of the Great Entrance not from the altar back to the altar, but from the altar to the tetrapod or the analogion that is set up within the church. It’s in the midst of the people. And one of the deacons carries the Gospel, another deacon or the priest carries the Apostolos book. They are set up in the midst of the people, the lessons are read in the midst of the people gathering around.”

http://www.frederica.com/writings/the-liturgy-of-st-james.html

 

[Ex_aedibus]

When I lived in the LA area, I once visited the Coptic parish there. From what I remember, the priest faced East. However, at the Chaldean parish, as in the Maronite parish, the priest faced the people while celebrating the Liturgy.

 

[Cecilianus]

The liturgy of St. James was also largely done facing the East.

“…And it’s a wonderful liturgy, because the truth of the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ in the Eucharist is held before the people. It’s celebrated. The deacons, when they invite the people to pray, face the people. They do not face the east. Much of the early liturgy as we know was celebrated on the solea, and it was only at the Eucharist itself that the priest and his deacons went to the altar and served the holy meal. Many of these elements are still in the Liturgy of St. James because the gospel book is actually brought at the time of the Great Entrance not from the altar back to the altar, but from the altar to the tetrapod or the analogion that is set up within the church. It’s in the midst of the people. And one of the deacons carries the Gospel, another deacon or the priest carries the Apostolos book. They are set up in the midst of the people, the lessons are read in the midst of the people gathering around.”

http://www.frederica.com/writings/the-liturgy-of-st-james.html

Wait a minute - the Gospel being brought at the Great Entrance? Do you (or does the author) mean the Lesser Entrance, or does the term “Great Entrance” mean something different for Copts than for Byzantines?

(For us, it refers to the entrance of the Eucharistic elements being brought to the altar for Consecration).