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Peter_J
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Thanks, Volodymyr.
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Peter_J
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Amen!
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mlouise007
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Rony-
Thank you for these references! I’ve been pretty disciplined in my book buying lately so maybe I can get one or two.
I was originally trying to not go too far afield with heading down the what are ECCs path. I think it’s foolish of me to think one can mention it at all without opening up the complexities of the topic.
(I’m looking at the “Reference threads” question our moderator posed some time ago and I see that most of us said we’d like to have Reference threads in the Eastern Catholicism section which would be of some help. I also see most of us responded with “but I probably won’t be able to help.” So that makes it hard to get those anytime soon.)
Ukrainian Greek Catholics anticipate their Catechism next year, which many of us are looking forward to.
Thanks again for taking the time to pass on these references and you very helpful observations/comments.
God bless-
Marylouise
Thank you for these references! I’ve been pretty disciplined in my book buying lately so maybe I can get one or two.
I have understood that Melkite Catholics also do not have their origin in an Orthodox Church. I think I should stop there and “cut my losses”.
I was originally trying to not go too far afield with heading down the what are ECCs path. I think it’s foolish of me to think one can mention it at all without opening up the complexities of the topic.(I’m looking at the “Reference threads” question our moderator posed some time ago and I see that most of us said we’d like to have Reference threads in the Eastern Catholicism section which would be of some help. I also see most of us responded with “but I probably won’t be able to help.” So that makes it hard to get those anytime soon.)
The heritage outside of Orthodoxy I had an idea of but I’m really ignorant beyond that and so glad you have mentioned this as something to be aware of, and hopefully to learn something about.
Is there one in the offing? That would be great. I know the
Ukrainian Greek Catholics anticipate their Catechism next year, which many of us are looking forward to.
Stranger things have happened… we may meet. Father Robert Taft, S.J. seems to agree with you.
Thanks again for taking the time to pass on these references and you very helpful observations/comments.
God bless-
Marylouise
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Peter_J
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I think you mean the Maronite Catholic Church.
Pardon my ignorance, but what is a Reference thread?
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Mickey
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Correct.
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mlouise007
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Peter-
-Mary Louise
Ugh. Too much multitasking, trying to not go another 2 days before saying “thank you!” to Rony. It’s not a good idea to be in a hurry when trying to write (or read) posts. You are right, I meant Maronite. I look at that in print and wonder how I even managed to type Melkite. Sigh. What did I say right after I typed that? “I should cut my losses” ! Too late. LOL
Maybe someone else can do a better job than me answering that. I was thinking of this question and this example . We have the same basic questions that come up over and over. Someone could read the reference thread first and then get more clarification as needed by posting further questions.
-Mary Louise
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Chaldean_Rite
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Mickey! I miss your posts man.
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Mickey
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I am trying to be more monastic-like.
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Hesychios
Guest
Actually, all churches which claim an Apostolic origin can be said to have been originally Orthodox, or at least proto-Orthodox.
That the Maronite church (if we agree you meant the Maronites) has no counterpart in Holy Orthodoxy is a different matter, and somewhat dependent upon the the Roman Catholic church considering them a unique rite, or church. The distinction is somewhat artificial.
In fact liturgically the Maronites do have a counterpart in the non-Chalcedonian Jacobite church, as well as the Syriac Catholic church. What makes them seem different is the very long separation which has allowed for some organic changes in their liturgy, plus some borrowings from elsewhere.
Historically, the Maronites seem to have separated from the Melkites, when that church was still using the Liturgy of Saint James. So the Melkites (both Catholic and Orthodox) can be considered a counterpart of the Maronites in that sense.
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Chaldean_Rite
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who or what can define a unique rite or church?
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Harpazo
Guest
Hmm, I never really thought about that, but now that you mention it, it does make sense. I think had the Maronites not been so heavily latinized by the Roman Church, their liturgy would resemble the Syriac Orthodox’s liturgy.
I owe my Maronite priest a lot of credit for pointing me to Orthodoxy. He was a firm believer that such recent Marian dogmas were completely unnecessary and that they did not fit with authentic Eastern Christianity. The funny thing is that for his Masters in Theology, his thesis was how the Immaculate Conception doctrine had no place in Syriac Christianity. He got his Masters and defended it so well, that the board (who were Oblates of the Immaculate Conception, ironically enough!
) recommended to his bishop that he have a chance to study in Rome. 
In case it hasn’t been mentioned already, the Orthodox feel that it is not necessary to elevate the Mother of God higher than us. The reason we do not jive with certain Catholic beliefs is that they like to make her the “great exception” as opposed to the “great example.”
A great book to read on this would be a little book written by St. John of Shanghai and San Francisco (whose feast it was last week).
Hope that helps!
In Christ,
Andrew
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mardukm
Guest
As it relates to the fact of her motherhood of God, Mary is indeed the Great Exception. You’ll have an impossible time from the Fathers proving otherwise.
As it relates to her as the model of the Church (which is such an explicit teaching of the Latin Church that you have no rhyme or reason to deny it), Mary is the Great Example.
Hope that helps.
Blessings
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Chaldean_Rite
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I highly, highly doubt the validity of this statment.
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mardukm
Guest
Oh great! Another non-Coptic Orthodox chiming in to give an unfounded opinion. BTW, an apostate is one who denies the essentials of Christianity. It seems you are ignorant of that universal definition?
Blessings
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Mickey
Guest
:crying:
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Mickey
Guest
You are saying that the Latin Church does not view St Mary as the great exception?
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Chaldean_Rite
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not referring to that:
referring too:
the Orthodox feel that it is not necessary to elevate the Mother of God higher than us
come on man, be realistic.
its found within Scrpiture and Tradition:
Luke 1:48 Because he hath regarded the humility of his handmaid; for behold from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed. 49 Because he that is mighty, hath done great things to me; and holy is his name.
She’s named in the Creed, and in the Mass:
**Priest ***(in a low voice):*So that they may be to those who partake of them for vigilance of soul, forgiveness of sins, communion of Your Holy Spirit, fulfillment of the kingdom of heaven, confidence before You, and not in judgment or condemnation. Again, we offer this spiritual worship for those who repose in the faith, forefathers, fathers, patriarchs, prophets, apostles, preachers, evangelists, martyrs, confessors, ascetics, and for every righteous spirit made perfect in faith.
**Priest: **Especially for our most holy, pure, blessed, and glorious Lady, the Theotokos and ever virgin Mary.
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Mickey
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I believe he was saying that it is not necessary for any new doctrines to elevate St Mary. Scripture and Tradition already tells us that she is the Panaghia.
Come on man!
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Chaldean_Rite
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they are not new, just developed.I believe he was saying that it is not necessary for any new doctrines to elevate St Mary. Scripture and Tradition already tells us that she is the Panaghia.
Come on man!
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Mickey
Guest
Okie dokie.they are not new, just developed.
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