Orthodox believe the same as Roman Catholics?

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Memaw said:
Orthodox believe the same as Roman Catholics do but they are in schism and are not under the authority of the Pope.
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Memaw said:
sambo, it seems everyone forgets that there was only ONE Christian Church before the Protestant Reformation and that is the Catholic Church, including the Orthodox Church.
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With all due respect to Memaw, I just don’t agree with either of those two sentences.
 
Memaw said:
Orthodox believe the same as Roman Catholics do but they are in schism and are not under the authority of the Pope.
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This statement entails either a misrepresentation of Orthodoxy, or a misrepresentation of Catholicism, or both.
 
I’m sorry, of course, if my words seem un-ecumenical. But quite frankly, I don’t think we should call ourselves ecumenical unless we are willing to say to the Orthodox “We respect what you believe, but it isn’t the same as what we (Catholics) believe.”

(And vice versa. I know I wouldn’t want Baptists to be so “ecumenical” as to say “Oh those Catholics are alright. They believe what we believe.” Do unto others as you would have others do unto you.)
 
What you could say is the Orthodox believe what Catholics believe… They consider themselves Catholics, just like the Old Catholics. What they do not consider themselves is Roman Catholics.

If they believed everything exactly the same as Roman Catholics, they would probably already be united with Rome! They have their disagreements and they reserve them with integrity.
 
The Orthodox have the same valid seven sacraments as do the Roman Catholics. In essence, they believe in the same things. If you leave linguistic semantics out of the debate.

The main difference between the Orthodox and Roman Catholics is who should control the Church. Whilst the Orthodox are willing to give the Bishop of Rome the title of “first amongst all equals”, they are still not willing to accept the universal supreme authority of the chair of Peter, which incidentally, presides in Rome.
 
cathopologist said:
The Orthodox have the same valid seven sacraments as do the Roman Catholics. In essence, they believe in the same things. If you leave linguistic semantics out of the debate.

The main difference between the Orthodox and Roman Catholics is who should control the Church. Whilst the Orthodox are willing to give the Bishop of Rome the title of “first amongst all equals”, they are still not willing to accept the universal supreme authority of the chair of Peter, which incidentally, presides in Rome.
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And while this isn’t the thread to debate it (there’s another open on the Old Catholic Church), there are others such as the latter which concur with the Orthodox view of the papacy.

I guess the point is, there is agreement on a great deal of things, but there are genuine points of difference, the main one being the view of the papacy.
 
cathopologist said:
The Orthodox have the same valid seven sacraments as do the Roman Catholics. In essence, they believe in the same things. If you leave linguistic semantics out of the debate.
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I definitely think that there’s more that unites us than that divides us. But …
Jonathan_Cid said:
And while this isn’t the thread to debate it (there’s another open on the Old Catholic Church), there are others such as the latter which concur with the Orthodox view of the papacy.

I guess the point is, there is agreement on a great deal of things, but there are genuine points of difference, the main one being the view of the papacy.
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Exactly. Even more to the point, Rome considers Papal Infallibility and Universal Ordinary Jurisdiction (a.k.a. Papal Supremacy) to be dogmas. That’s why I say that the statement “Orthodox believe the same as Roman Catholics” entails a misrepresentation of one side or the other (or both).
 
You could also say that a point of difference would be whether doctrines must be obeyed or not. If one’s Catholicity is abrogated because they do not obey doctrine. Roman Catholics, I think, have the tendency to “dogmatize doctrine” like an Old Catholic Bishop I know once said.

And PeterJ, I agree with your statement about there being more in common than differences.

“May they be One.”
 
I think the frame of reference needs to be taken into account. There are differences between the two, some quite major. However, if viewed from a Protestant perspective, they shrink greatly.
 
ralphinal said:
I think the frame of reference needs to be taken into account. There are differences between the two, some quite major. However, if viewed from a Protestant perspective, they shrink greatly.
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Well, but because Protestants really don’t take authority into consideration. 🙂
 
Jonathan_Cid said:
Well, but because Protestants really don’t take authority into consideration. 🙂
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Let’s leave that one out for a second.

For this argument, say you are baptist. You look at EO and CAtholic. You see seven sacraments. You see the use of statues in one and icons in the other (both questionable), you see a church heirarchy that is different from yours. You see prayers to saints, you see prayers for the dead. You see the importance of tradition as well as scriptures. Now, when you look deeper, they seem similar but using different words.
 
The Eastern Orthodox are heretics and schismatics.

Unless a contumacious Eastern Orthodox believer converts to the Catholic and Orthodox faith and submits to the Holy Orthodox Pope Benedict XVI, he will not be saved.

Proper Eastern Orthodox believers believe the exact opposite of this, and that we are damned if we adhere to false doctrine and submit to a false Pope, and they should be lauded for the clarity of their beliefs. It’s the mushy modernists in both Churches that confuse the issue and attempt to impose a counterfeit unity.

If we are to have dialogue, then it should acknowledge the profound doctrinal differences between two churches and should result in communion only when there is a perfect and unambiguous unity of doctrine.
 
Dauphin said:
The Eastern Orthodox are heretics and schismatics.

Unless a contumacious Eastern Orthodox believer converts to the Catholic and Orthodox faith and submits to the Holy Orthodox Pope Benedict XVI, he will not be saved.

Proper Eastern Orthodox believers believe the exact opposite of this, and that we are damned if we adhere to false doctrine and submit to a false Pope, and they should be lauded for the clarity of their beliefs. It’s the mushy modernists in both Churches that confuse the issue and attempt to impose a counterfeit unity.

If we are to have dialogue, then it should acknowledge the profound doctrinal differences between two churches and should result in communion only when there is a perfect and unambiguous unity of doctrine.
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Well, no one can accuse you of not having an opinion. 😃
 
Dauphin said:
Asking that question is like asking if it’s the official position of the Harvard Mathematics Department that 1+1=2.

It had better be.
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Please answer my question. There is no reason for you to be sarcastic.
 
w_stewart said:
Please answer my question. There is no reason for you to be sarcastic.
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No position is necessary.

If you reject a Catholic doctrine, like the Immaculate Conception or Papal Infallibility (like the Orthodox explicitly do), that makes you a heretic.

There’s no reason for confusion or doubt; The Eastern Orthodox are heretics.

I resorted to sarcasm because I’ve encountered people on these forums who insist that the Eastern Orthodox don’t reject Papal Infallibility. I don’t want to get mired in another ridiculous discussion in which the other poster seems to ignore reality.
 
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