A
adstrinity
Guest
I read in another thread that the Orthodox Bible has 81 Books? Is that true? Assuming it is any other number than 73, how did that come about?
Thank you.
Thank you.
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SilentKnight
Guest
That may be true and, if so, it would be because the Septuagint actually had more books in it than even we Catholics recognize as scriptural. The Orthodox Church may recognize the entire Septuagint.
SK
SK
A
adstrinity
Guest
That may be the case, but, if we were all one church in the 300s, when the Cannon was decided, how did this discrepency happen?
And, thank you for your reply. I was beginning to wonder if everybody else knew and just didn’t want to tell me.
And, thank you for your reply. I was beginning to wonder if everybody else knew and just didn’t want to tell me.
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SilentKnight
Guest
If I’m not mistaken, the answer to your question goes like this:
Hippo and Carthage (the councils that decided the canon we are used to) were local councils, not ecumenical ones. Trent later ratified Hippo and Carthage’s decision, making our canon infallible, but that wasn’t until the mid 1500’s - well after the split.
The Catholic Church of today is comprised of a very distinct and clearly defined 22 or 23 separate Churches. (Byzantine, Chaldean, Roman, etc.). This has not always been the case. In the earliest days of the Church, we were much more uniform. As the Church grew and spread, the new rites began to appear and develop, growing into their own distinct Churches, etc. In the 4th century A.D., some “churches” (groups of Christians anyway) were using the canon we use now, some were using the current Protestant canon, if I’m not mistaken, and a few used a canon that included the entire Septuagint. Carthage and Hippo may have “settled the matter” for the churches/groups to whom they applied. But for other eastern Christians, it was “business as usual”.
…That’s my understanding of the issue from having studied it many many years ago anyway.
Some of this is little known so Im not real surprised that no one else has answered you yet.
SK
Hippo and Carthage (the councils that decided the canon we are used to) were local councils, not ecumenical ones. Trent later ratified Hippo and Carthage’s decision, making our canon infallible, but that wasn’t until the mid 1500’s - well after the split.
The Catholic Church of today is comprised of a very distinct and clearly defined 22 or 23 separate Churches. (Byzantine, Chaldean, Roman, etc.). This has not always been the case. In the earliest days of the Church, we were much more uniform. As the Church grew and spread, the new rites began to appear and develop, growing into their own distinct Churches, etc. In the 4th century A.D., some “churches” (groups of Christians anyway) were using the canon we use now, some were using the current Protestant canon, if I’m not mistaken, and a few used a canon that included the entire Septuagint. Carthage and Hippo may have “settled the matter” for the churches/groups to whom they applied. But for other eastern Christians, it was “business as usual”.
…That’s my understanding of the issue from having studied it many many years ago anyway.
Some of this is little known so Im not real surprised that no one else has answered you yet.
SK
S
SilentKnight
Guest
You know…I’m gonna have to go back and re-study this because the more I think about it, the more I’m tempted to think that the Orthodox canon is actually the same as the current Protestant canon and that there is only one “Church” in the world that uses the 81 book canon and its one of the oriental churches, somewhere in the far east…
SK
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JMBNH
Guest
-]/-]The Eastern Orthodox has the Catholic canon plus:
3 Maccabees
3rd Esdras (known as 1 Esdras)
Prayer of Manasseh
Psalm 151 (part of the book of Psalms)
plus the Slavonic language autocephalous churches include 4th Esdras as 3rd Esdras
The Armenian Church uses the Catholic canon but used to include more
The Syrian and Assyrian Churches use the Catholic canon plus:
3 Maccabees
Psalm 151
Prayer of Manasseh
and in the Assyrian Church only there’s an extra part of Baruch called the Letter of Baruch
Coptic Church has the Catholic canon plus:
4th Esdras (unsure what name they call it)
Psalm 151
Ethiopian and Eritrean Churches have Catholic canon (except 1 & 2 Maccabees) plus:
1-3 Maccabees (different to the Catholic form)
Prayer of Manasseh
3rd & 4th Esdras
Jubilees
Enoch
4th Baruch (as part of Baruch)
Also they split Proverbs into 2, these are the ones with about 80 books
bombaxo.com/canonchart.html
On the New Testament the Eastern Orthodox are the same, the Ethiopians have multiple extra books, the Assyrians don’t have 2 Peter, 2 & 3 John, Jude and Revelation. The Syrians didn’t but have since added them. The Armenians used to have 3 Corinthians and the Epistle of the Corinthians but have removed them. I think the Copts still have 1 & 2 Clement but not sure
3 Maccabees
3rd Esdras (known as 1 Esdras)
Prayer of Manasseh
Psalm 151 (part of the book of Psalms)
plus the Slavonic language autocephalous churches include 4th Esdras as 3rd Esdras
The Armenian Church uses the Catholic canon but used to include more
The Syrian and Assyrian Churches use the Catholic canon plus:
3 Maccabees
Psalm 151
Prayer of Manasseh
and in the Assyrian Church only there’s an extra part of Baruch called the Letter of Baruch
Coptic Church has the Catholic canon plus:
4th Esdras (unsure what name they call it)
Psalm 151
Ethiopian and Eritrean Churches have Catholic canon (except 1 & 2 Maccabees) plus:
1-3 Maccabees (different to the Catholic form)
Prayer of Manasseh
3rd & 4th Esdras
Jubilees
Enoch
4th Baruch (as part of Baruch)
Also they split Proverbs into 2, these are the ones with about 80 books
bombaxo.com/canonchart.html
On the New Testament the Eastern Orthodox are the same, the Ethiopians have multiple extra books, the Assyrians don’t have 2 Peter, 2 & 3 John, Jude and Revelation. The Syrians didn’t but have since added them. The Armenians used to have 3 Corinthians and the Epistle of the Corinthians but have removed them. I think the Copts still have 1 & 2 Clement but not sure
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Wyatt
Guest
So do these extra books that the Orthodox have introduce any doctrine that is not found in the Catholic faith?
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JMBNH
Guest
Not that I am aware of. 4 Maccabees possibly does but the Eastern Orthodox dropped it due to this.
3 Maccabees is a fun (if uncredible) story but not much unique doctrine. 3rd Esdras is basically bits of Ezra and Nehemiah in a different order with one extra story. Prayer of Manasseh is allegedly Manasseh’s conversion prayer. Psalm 151 is about David beating Goliath. 4th Esdras is interesting and has Christian references but is basically Ezra fasting and being given visions by the Archangel Uriel, hard to read though.
The ones that may have extra doctrine are the Ethiopian Enoch and Jubilees but I haven’t read them yet so can’t comment, apparently they do expand massively on OT stories albeit with maybe a bit of contradiction
C
Chellow
Guest
Find in the links below some helpful information on this posting.
The Books of the Old Testament
Books of the Bible
The Books of the Old Testament
Books of the Bible
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