Orthodox / Catholic Joint Prayer Eve of the Feast of Sts. Peter & Paul

[SAVINGRACE]

I agree with what you’re trying to say, but bringing up that incident (or any scandal or controversy, for that matter) probably is not the best way to do it without making people defensive.

She was already defensive and offensive towards a Catholic Bishop prior to my post. I hope my video made an impact, because it shows the difference between perceived bad behaviour in a church and actual bad behaviour in a church.

Did you post counselling words to 1TimMommy also regarding her uncharitable comments about the Bishop?

 

[neokarny]

She was already defensive and offensive towards a Catholic Bishop prior to my post. I hope my video made an impact, because it shows the difference between perceived bad behaviour in a church and actual bad behaviour in a church.

Did you post counselling words to 1TimMommy also regarding her uncharitable comments about the Bishop?

I saw that she was, but - and I mean no offense - I don’t believe posting a reference to scandal to be helpful. It would be similar to me posting videos of OF liturgical abuse in response to a Catholic poster (to flip the scenario re: judging on single events). It’s unlikely to persuade them, and often likely to make them further offensive/defensive. That’s all I’m saying, and not that your purpose was wrong.

Also, I didn’t feel the need to remark on her comments as a couple other posters already had. It was also more properly their place than mine I suppose.

 

[1Tim215Mommy]

She was already defensive and offensive towards a Catholic Bishop prior to my post. I hope my video made an impact, because it shows the difference between perceived bad behaviour in a church and actual bad behaviour in a church.

Did you post counselling words to 1TimMommy also regarding her uncharitable comments about the Bishop?

I apologize if you or anyone else here thinks I have been defensive or offensive towards a Catholic Bishop. My intent was simply to share what I witnessed. Period. The mentioning of what the Catholic Bishop did at one point in the service was not my focal point of that night and it was not my focal point of this thread. I didn’t even bring it up in the original post. I commented about it as an after thought in post # 9, but it’s been turned into a major focus for some and I’ve been accused by Catholics of: Injustice and uncharitable comments. Whatever. Let’s move on.

Do you think any Catholic or Orthodox laity will come together for joint Book Studies as was recommended during the service?

 

[5Loaves]

When the Orthodox Priest spoke briefly about his conversion from Protestant Christianity to Orthodox Christianity the Catholic Bishop visibly shook with laughter behind him, indicating he thinks Orthodoxy is a joke and Protestant.

What an astonishing conclusion. Whatever he may have been thinking, I am confident the Bishop thought nothing remotely like what you attribute to him.

The Orthodox Jurisdictions represented were Greek, Antiochian & OCA.

I hope you will speak with one of the clergy from the three jurisdictions you say were there and ask them about their own experience.

 

[1Tim215Mommy]

5Loaves:
Instead I’ll bring you back to the original post and ask:

Do you think that the Catholic & Orthodox laity will come together & begin joint Book Studies as was recommended at the service?

 

[babochka]

The prayers themselves were not any I’ve ever seen in an Orthodox Prayer book or heard at any Orthodox Church Service I’ve ever attended. As you can imagine, one of the prayers related Jeses as founded the Catholic Papacy on St. Peter.

Why would you expect prayers at a Catholic service, hosted by a Catholic Bishop, to be, or even to resemble, Orthodox prayers? Roman Catholic Vespers is different from Orthodox/Byzantine Vespers.

St. Anthony’s was an unfortunate choice for such an event. It was built in a time in which many Catholic churches were, frankly, ugly. Thankfully, we seem to be turning a corner. Catholics really don’t think they look like churches, either, but we seem to be stuck with many such churches built in the 70s and 80s. This service has been held in the magnificent cathedral in the past.

I dropped 2 of my kids off this afternoon at Camp Pendola, the camp for the diocese of Sacramento. I stayed for the Mass, which Bishop Jaime Soto was celebrating. The man is downright jovial. All the time. He constantly had huge smile on his face. Every time I’ve ever seen or met him, he has worn that same smile. Please cut him a little slack and assume the best. I really don’t think he was showing disdain for the Orthodox or for the priest.

In the past, this event has been reciprocated, and the bishop has attended orthodox vespers at Annunciation Greek Orthodox parish. I doubt that the Catholics attending wonder why there aren’t familiar prayers, why it just doesn’t seem like vespers.

 

[5Loaves]

Do you think any Catholic or Orthodox laity will come together for joint Book Studies as was recommended during the service?

I have friends at St. Philip the Apostle Byzantine Catholic Church in Sacramento. I suggest if you like that idea of a joint Book Study that you contact them. They have a wonderful priest and matushka and a lively parish. If you’re on Facebook I suggest contacting them that way.
facebook.com/stphilipofsacramento?fref=ts
Or if you’re comfortable PM me with your email address and a message and I can forward that on to Elizabeth there.

I’m friends with the priest at St George Melkite in Sacramento but I don’t know anyone in the parish, other than having met them when I’ve visited there.

 

[babochka]

Teresa, I’m so sorry to hear about the loss of your grandmother. May her memory be eternal!

Yes, it was at St. Anthony’s. I was told the purpose of the event was the Feast of Sts. Peter & Paul. Fr. Timothy Robinson did thank the Catholics for praying for the kidnapped yet I had no way of knowing that was a purpose for the event. Perhaps that is how it was advertised to the Catholics?

I wonder if your priest is who I thought might be OCA. I didn’t recognize him. Is he a very tall man who may have wore a grey colored robe?

That sounds like Fr. Ted from Holy Wisdom Ukrainian Catholic parish.

 

[1Tim215Mommy]

1. Why would you expect prayers at a Catholic service, hosted by a Catholic Bishop, to be, or even to resemble, Orthodox prayers? 2. Roman Catholic Vespers is different from Orthodox/Byzantine Vespers.

1. Good question First, I was told it was Vespers and I thought Vespers was the same in any Apostolic Church. I was wrong. I have learned that Catholics have a different Vespers than Orthodox. I also thought that since it was a joint service that there would have been like a 50/50 representation of both Churches traditions, but there wasn’t anything Orthodox about the service although the Orthodox Priest did give the homily. Second, No idea ahead of the event that a Catholic Bishop would be present. A nice Surprise.
2. Yes, now I know Live and learn. That’s part of why I’ve said that I’m glad I attended.

 

[1Tim215Mommy]

That sounds like Fr. Ted from Holy Wisdom Ukrainian Catholic parish.

lol! I thought he may have been OCA.

Do you think anyone from your parish will want to establish a joint Church Book Study?

 

[babochka]

I have friends at St. Philip the Apostle Byzantine Catholic Church in Sacramento. I suggest if you like that idea of a joint Book Study that you contact them. They have a wonderful priest and matushka and a lively parish. If you’re on Facebook I suggest contacting them that way.
facebook.com/stphilipofsacramento?fref=ts
Or if you’re comfortable PM me with your email address and a message and I can forward that on to Elizabeth there.

I’m friends with the priest at St George Melkite in Sacramento but I don’t know anyone in the parish, other than having met them when I’ve visited there.

I’m here! She can pm me here on Catholic Answers, or any of the other ways you mentioned.

 

[babochka]

lol! I thought he may have been OCA.

Do you think anyone from your parish will want to establish a joint Church Book Study?

I think there might be some interest. Right now, we’re in the middle of a reading group featuring readings from Maximus the Confessor, Symeon the New Theologian, Gregory Palamas, and others. It is the first such study our parish has done in a long time, and I think it has whet our appetite for more.

 

[babochka]

1. Good question First, I was told it was Vespers and I thought Vespers was the same in any Apostolic Church. I was wrong. I have learned that Catholics have a different Vespers than Orthodox. I also thought that since it was a joint service that there would have been like a 50/50 representation of both Churches traditions, but there wasn’t anything Orthodox about the service although the Orthodox Priest did give the homily. Second, No idea ahead of the event that a Catholic Bishop would be present. A nice Surprise.
2. Yes, now I know Live and learn. That’s part of why I’ve said that I’m glad I attended.

Oops! You saw and replied to that post before I edited. I hadn’t read all the way through and discovered through the replies that it was the Diocese of Sacramento.

 

[babochka]

1. Good question First, I was told it was Vespers and I thought Vespers was the same in any Apostolic Church. I was wrong. I have learned that Catholics have a different Vespers than Orthodox. I also thought that since it was a joint service that there would have been like a 50/50 representation of both Churches traditions, but there wasn’t anything Orthodox about the service although the Orthodox Priest did give the homily. Second, No idea ahead of the event that a Catholic Bishop would be present. A nice Surprise.
2. Yes, now I know Live and learn. That’s part of why I’ve said that I’m glad I attended.

If you attend vespers in my parish, it will probably seem like vespers to you. Except we do the back and forth singing of the psalms. I thought everybody did it that way. I once attended the pan-orthodox vespers for the feast of Orthodoxy, and that’s how they did it, at the Serbian Orthodox church.

 

[5Loaves]

No, that wasn’t the purpose. Although the Orthodox Priest thanked the Catholics for praying for them. Since the Catholics did not pray for them publicly at this “Vespers”, I guess it was a presumption on his part that all Catholics present have been praying for them privately.

I’m not sure how the Orthodox clergy knew the intention and others knew but you didn’t.

I read about it on Byzcath Forum

This Friday, June 28, at 7:00 pm, a vigil service will be hosted by the Roman Catholic Diocese of Sacramento and the Greek Orthodox Church for the kidnapped metropolitans of Aleppo in Syria and all other people who suffer for the Churches of Syria and the Middle East. All are invited to attend and pray for the suffering people of the Middle East. The service will be held at:

St. Anthony Parish
660 Florin Road
Sacramento, CA 95831

Our parish (Holy Wisdom Eastern Catholic Parish) will attend the vigil. Please join us if you can. The diocesan announcement is here: diocese-sacramento.org/

I don’t know where it was publicized in the Sac area besides the link given on the Diocese website, and Holy Wisdom .

(And I now see that Elizabeth is posting in this thread, so maybe you two can connect about the book group idea )

As you can imagine, one of the prayers related Jeses as founded the Catholic Papacy on St. Peter.
JMJ_coder;10930718:

Assuming it was for the Solemnity of Sts. Peter and Paul, it was probably either Antiphon 2 from Evening Prayer 1 - You are Peter, and on this rock I will build by Church - or Antiphon 3 from Evening Prayer 2 - You are shepherd of the flock, the prince of the apostles; to you were entrusted the keys of the kingdom of heaven.

Hopefully that cleared that up.

 

[5Loaves]

If you attend vespers in my parish, it will probably seem like vespers to you. Except we do the back and forth singing of the psalms.** I thought everybody did it that way**. I once attended the pan-orthodox vespers for the feast of Orthodoxy, and that’s how they did it, at the Serbian Orthodox church.

My only experience of Vespers in the Latin Church is with friars with weekday Vespers and that is always antiphonal, sometimes plain chant, sometimes in the chant for the day.

I’ve experienced Vespers in the East in some cases antiphonally and some not. It has seemed to have to do with the size of the choir, whether their tradition is for the people to sing or only the choir sings, or whether they have two kliros, both north and south, as there is are at St. Seraphim of Sarov in Santa Rosa. However in my few times there only the choir sang. At the Greek Cathedral parish here for Vespers on a Saturday, not a Festal Vigil, it’s kind of antiphonal except only the cantors chant and they stand together so they alternate chanting, but from the one location. When it’s a Festal Vigil there then the choir is in the choir loft and the organ is played and it’s a while different animal. I mentioned in my first post in this thread that there were antiphonal chants at Holy Virgin during the Vespers for St John the Wonderworker a few days ago. Those parts were alternating amongst the clergy and perhaps also the choir. It was a little hard to tell exactly where the division was. I was on the north side of the Cathedral and no one was singing in that area. The Bishops and Archimandrites were in the center and other clergy in the south side so all the chanting was coming from there and from the choir loft up high.

We have only Reader’s Vespers in my parish so the antiphonal part is usually the deacon and another reader taking turns.

 

[Mickey]

but bringing up that incident (or any scandal or controversy, for that matter) probably is not the best way to do it without making people defensive.

Yes. That is unfortunate. We could be flinging youtube videos at each other all day long…it will prove nothing.

 

[Mickey]

I will never participate in such an event ever again.

This is not an event in which I would ever participate.

 

[babochka]

We have only Reader’s Vespers in my parish so the antiphonal part is usually the deacon and another reader taking turns.

In my parish, we usually have fewer than 10 people for vespers. The cantor and the priest alternate, with the rest of us joining whichever one that we happen to be sitting closest to.

 

[teresa_lamb]

That sounds like Fr. Ted from Holy Wisdom Ukrainian Catholic parish.

Yes, it is Fr. Ted…but he is not short…lol

I have been told by Fr. Bill to visit St. Philips…

Teresa