Orthodox / Catholic Joint Prayer Eve of the Feast of Sts. Peter & Paul

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5Loaves said:
Is there some other basis on which you would pray together with non Orthodox for the safety of these two Orthodox bishops?
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I’d imagine they’d be fine with most other ways that aren’t an actual liturgical service.
 
1Tim215Mommy said:
Is it uncanonical? While I was there, I got a really strong feeling it was.
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I have no idea if it is uncanonical or not, but this is not an uncommon occurence on this feast, supported and attended by those at the highest levels of the Catholic Church. Thsi year, Pope Francis received Patriarch Bartholemew for the feast. This year in Boston, Cardinal Sean O’Malley and Greek Orthodox Metropolitan Methodius celebrated vespers together, as is their tradition. It is typical for the invitation to be reciprocated, with the orthodox invite the Catholics for the feast of St. Andrew.

I’m not Orthodox, but given that there is no concelebration of the mysteries and no inter-communion, why would it be uncanonical, and is this something that Metropolitain Methodius, Patriarch Bartholemew and Fr. Timothy, along with many other Orthodox priests and Bishops are unaware of? I have met Fr. Timothy on a couple of occasions, although I could not say that I know him. He is a man with a great heart for Catholic-Orthodox relations, but he is Orthodox without compromise and I do not believe that he would do something uncanonical. I know that it is hard for it to come across in this forum, but this is a sincere question. I am trying to understand the different perspectives here.
 
babochka said:
I have no idea if it is uncanonical or not
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"If one who is not in communion prays together, even at home, let him be excommunicated”
**Canon 10 of the Holy Apostles: **
babochka said:
and is this something that Metropolitain Methodius, Patriarch Bartholemew and Fr. Timothy, along with many other Orthodox priests and Bishops are unaware of?
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Sometimes, canons are ignored for the sake of ecumenism. 🤷
 
babochka said:
I have no idea if it is uncanonical or not, but this is not an uncommon occurence on this feast, supported and attended by those at the highest levels of the Catholic Church. Thsi year, Pope Francis received Patriarch Bartholemew for the feast. This year in Boston, Cardinal Sean O’Malley and Greek Orthodox Metropolitan Methodius celebrated vespers together, as is their tradition. It is typical for the invitation to be reciprocated, with the orthodox invite the Catholics for the feast of St. Andrew.

I’m not Orthodox, but given that there is no concelebration of the mysteries and no inter-communion, why would it be uncanonical, and is this something that Metropolitain Methodius, Patriarch Bartholemew and Fr. Timothy, along with many other Orthodox priests and Bishops are unaware of? I have met Fr. Timothy on a couple of occasions, although I could not say that I know him. He is a man with a great heart for Catholic-Orthodox relations, but he is Orthodox without compromise and I do not believe that he would do something uncanonical. I know that it is hard for it to come across in this forum, but this is a sincere question. I am trying to understand the different perspectives here.
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The canons are constantly referenced of not praying together with non-Orthodox, and the conservative view of this is no prayer (corporate or private) with non-Orthodox. The moderate view of this is no corporate prayer with non-Orthodox, while still alowing private prayer.

This falls under “corporate prayer,” being a liturgical service as a church communtiy (even if it’s not Eucharistic), and so would be uncanonical even in the case of a moderate interpretation.

Almost definitely a Catholic-Orthodox Vespers service is traditionally uncanonical, at least to most Orthodox. So now part of the issue is whether that canon even matters, whether it should even be applied, etc.
 
1Tim215Mommy said:
Instead I’ll bring you back to the original post and ask:

Do you think that the Catholic & Orthodox laity will come together & begin joint Book Studies as was recommended at the service?
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I have not heard anything at my local parish about joint Book Studies and we have not had a joint anything at this stage. I live in a capital city which has a large Orthodox community. I’d definitely be interested if it was on offer.

Understandably these joint activities are new to many laity so there will be detractors from both sides. Some people are just not interested in experiencing anything new even if it is sanctioned by their Bishop. I know some at my parish from previous conversations who would not have a bar of it and others who would not have a bar of anything joint with Protestants but would welcome a joint event with Orthodox’s.
 
Mickey said:
"If one who is not in communion prays together, even at home, let him be excommunicated”
**Canon 10 of the Holy Apostles: **
Sometimes, canons are ignored for the sake of ecumenism. 🤷
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I gather that this is why ecumenism has been condemned as a heresy by some Bishops? but isn’t that rather extreme though or is that authenticly Orthodox?

Just thinking as typing…For love of Christ our God, should we error on the side of purity of Faith/faithfulness to His Church as have been handed down to us in the canons OR should we error on the side of ecumenism/brotherly love and acceptance? Tight-rope walking. Reading the Prologue of Ohrid, the Pillars of Orthodoxy and the Holy Women Martyrs the Saints reportedly fell on the side of strictness to Orthodoxy…are they Saints Because of that or Despite of that? Any thoughts?
 
neokarny said:
I’d imagine they’d be fine with most other ways that aren’t an actual liturgical service.
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That makes sense now.
Until very recently it was unheard of for Russian Orthodox and Greek Orthodox clergy to have services together. It’s still very unusual to see mixed clergy together in a service, at least here in northern CA. Last year at the big 200th anniversary of Ft Ross (Russian) His Eminence Metropolitan Gerasimos of the Greek Orthodox Metropolis of San Francisco and a local Greek Orthodox priest were present, tho they were not vested.

Met. Gerasimos was present seated in the sanctuary in his exorason and kalimavkion/epanokamelavkion for the ordination of Bishop Justice in the Latin Cathedral in SF a few years ago, and was present there again seated in the sanctuary for the elevation and installation of Archbishop Cordilione last fall.

There is a strong Orthodox contingent at the March for Life in DC, not a liturgical service, and bishops from a number of different jurisdictions are together on the platform to address the crowd there.
 
5Loaves said:
That makes sense now.
Until very recently it was unheard of for Russian Orthodox and Greek Orthodox clergy to have services together. It’s still very unusual to see mixed clergy together in a service, at least here in northern CA. Last year at the big 200th anniversary of Ft Ross (Russian) His Eminence Metropolitan Gerasimos of the Greek Orthodox Metropolis of San Francisco and a local Greek Orthodox priest were present, tho they were not vested.
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The situation here in Houston is much different, perhaps because there is a lot of pan-Orthodox activity here. Metropolitan Isaiah was in town in March of this year for a Vespers service which had about 20 priests serving, including one priest from a ROCOR parish about 30 miles away, and bunch of Antiochian clergy (I think they might have actually been the most numerous, more numerous even than their GOARCH hosts).
 
Interesting. I know a couple in the Houston suburbs, Joel and Helen Norton. They have a son named George.

They were OCA in Midland and became Antiochian when they relocated to the Houston area.

Helen was originally Greek from NYC, and Joel was a convert from Maine. Why they came to Texas I will never know.
 
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