Orthodox Catholic Theological Dialogue

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The president of the Department of InterChurch Connections of the Moscow Patriarchat, Mitropolit Volokolamskiy Ilarion with the blessing of his Holiness Patriarch Moskovskiy and all Rus Krill took part in the meeting of the editoral committe of the Combined

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Theological Commission for Dialogue between Orthodox Churches and Roman Catholic church which occured 15-17 Iune 2010 in the city of Refimnon on the island of Greece Krete. The theme of the consideration was the theological and ekklesiological aspects of primacy and concilness in Church. The co presidents of the editorial committee are the copresidents of the Mixed Commission Mitropolit Permanskiy Ioann of Constantinople Patriarchat, the head of the Papal Committee for Help to Christian Unity, Cardinal Kurt Kokh. From Local orthodox churches at the meeting took part Mitropolit Sassimskiy Genaddiy (Constantinople patriarkhat), Mitropolit Volokolamskiy Ilarion, Bishop Branchevskiy Ignatiy (Serbian Orthodox Church) and Mitropolit Konstantinski Vasiliy (Kipr Orthodox Church). At the time of the being on Krete there was celebratory supper in honor of the participants of the meeting given by the ruling archpriest Mitropolit Refiminskiy and Avopotamskiy Evgeniy

Above on left is Mitropolit Ilarion meeting Greek Mitropolit Evgeniy.

This is major mis understanding or controversy - primacy and councilness - between Orthodox and Roman church. Pray for solutions so that we can all again be ORthodox and be catolic.
 
Volodymyr said:
The president of the Department of InterChurch Connections of the Moscow Patriarchat, Mitropolit Volokolamskiy Ilarion with the blessing of his Holiness Patriarch Moskovskiy and all Rus Krill took part in the meeting of the editoral committe of the Combined

http://www.mospat.ru/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/IMG_6127.jpg

Theological Commission for Dialogue between Orthodox Churches and Roman Catholic church which occured 15-17 Iune 2010 in the city of Refimnon on the island of Greece Krete. The theme of the consideration was the theological and ekklesiological aspects of primacy and concilness in Church. The co presidents of the editorial committee are the copresidents of the Mixed Commission Mitropolit Permanskiy Ioann of Constantinople Patriarchat, the head of the Papal Committee for Help to Christian Unity, Cardinal Kurt Kokh. From Local orthodox churches at the meeting took part Mitropolit Sassimskiy Genaddiy (Constantinople patriarkhat), Mitropolit Volokolamskiy Ilarion, Bishop Branchevskiy Ignatiy (Serbian Orthodox Church) and Mitropolit Konstantinski Vasiliy (Kipr Orthodox Church). At the time of the being on Krete there was celebratory supper in honor of the participants of the meeting given by the ruling archpriest Mitropolit Refiminskiy and Avopotamskiy Evgeniy

Above on left is Mitropolit Ilarion meeting Greek Mitropolit Evgeniy.

This is major mis understanding or controversy - primacy and councilness - between Orthodox and Roman church. Pray for solutions so that we can all again be ORthodox and be catolic.
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How many Orthodox are there in the world?

I would love to see unity - there is so much to be learned from each other!
 
I hate to be a pessimist but these talks lead to nothing. There is not a single voice in Orthodoxy so when a small group comes to agreement on a theological issue with the Catholic Church another voice in Orthodoxy comes forward and says, they don’t speak for us.
But, with God all things are possible. I do pray for unity.
 
jam070406 said:
I hate to be a pessimist but these talks lead to nothing. There is not a single voice in Orthodoxy so when a small group comes to agreement on a theological issue with the Catholic Church another voice in Orthodoxy comes forward and says, they don’t speak for us.
But, with God all things are possible. I do pray for unity.
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Well, that’s not totally true. If the Athonites, the very heart of Eastern Orthodox monasticism, could somehow be convinced, then I’m sure the rest of Orthodoxy would follow suit. Good luck convincing those stubborn monks though. 😃
 
Cavaradossi said:
Well, that’s not totally true. If the Athonites, the very heart of Eastern Orthodox monasticism, could somehow be convinced, then I’m sure the rest of Orthodoxy would follow suit. Good luck convincing those stubborn monks though. 😃
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This is true. If you can get the monks of the Holy Mountain to agree to something, all of Orthodoxy will follow. They, with the Babas, are truly the ultimate defenders of Orthodoxy.

Of course many of the monks are known for condemning His All Holiness for ecumenical talks with the Romans, so I don’t know how easily you’re going to get the hearts of the spiritual center of Orthodoxy to give their stamp of approval on anything…
 
Rawb said:
This is true. If you can get the monks of the Holy Mountain to agree to something, all of Orthodoxy will follow. They, with the Babas, are truly the ultimate defenders of Orthodoxy.

Of course many of the monks are known for condemning His All Holiness for ecumenical talks with the Romans, so I don’t know how easily you’re going to get the hearts of the spiritual center of Orthodoxy to give their stamp of approval on anything…
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Exactly. they are the force that keeps the optimistic ecumenism of the Ecumenical Patriarch in check by reminding us that monasticism is the true heart of Orthodoxy. As much as we may all hope for reunion, we Orthodox cannot press forward unilaterally without the support of our most conservative and revered monastic fathers. To do so would be contrary to the spirit of Holy Orthodoxy.
 
Cavaradossi said:
Exactly. they are the force that keeps the optimistic ecumenism of the Ecumenical Patriarch in check by reminding us that monasticism is the true heart of Orthodoxy. As much as we may all hope for reunion, we Orthodox cannot press forward unilaterally without the support of our most conservative and revered monastic fathers. To do so would be contrary to the spirit of Holy Orthodoxy.
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What gives these monks the authority? What if they become a obstacle to unity?
 
jam070406 said:
What gives these monks the authority? What if they become a obstacle to unity?
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They don’t have “authority” in the sense of having any jurisdictional power. It is often said that one can judge the health of Orthodoxy by the health of her monastic life; because of this, their authority comes from the respect which they are given by the Orthodox world. If they advise against something, then their advice is something which must be considered and discussed with them before pressing on any further. If they become an obstacle to unity, it is only because they are acting to prevent false unity where there is no union by Faith. Only a union with protects the fundamental faith of Holy Orthodoxy would probably be acceptable to the monks on Athos (and to the Orthodox faithful as well).
 
jam070406 said:
I hate to be a pessimist but these talks lead to nothing. There is not a single voice in Orthodoxy so when a small group comes to agreement on a theological issue with the Catholic Church another voice in Orthodoxy comes forward and says, they don’t speak for us.
But, with God all things are possible. I do pray for unity.
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But hey, it is better to talk,than not talk at all.Gotta start somewhere
 
Nicea325 said:
But hey, it is better to talk,than not talk at all.Gotta start somewhere
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I agree. If we bury our heads in the sand and pretend that there are no substantial differences or rattle our sabers and declare that the differences can never be resolved and to try is pointless, then we will never get anywhere.
 
I agree, there’s nothing that can come through open conversation but clearer communication and understanding. 😉

Just to note we are all on the same page that all the EO churchs have valid Apostolic Succession?

How does the EO view the lineage of the Lutheran Church? I know they have a somewhat different historic view of the Angelican Church [EO+CC]. Another conversation for another day I suppose. I’m thinking out loud. 🙂

BTW I didn’t realize Krill was so young. 👍

In truth heres the document I find most significant and I see more in line with the full communion of the churchs. .

“But what is his error, and how great his blindness, who says that the remission of sins can be given in the synagogues of the heretics, and who does not remain on the foundation of the one Church which was founded upon the rock by Christ can be learned from this, which Christ said to Peter alone: “Whatever things you shall bind on earth shall be bound also in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth, they shall be loosed in heaven;” and by this, again in the gospel, when Christ breathed upon the Apostles alone, saying to them; “Receive the Holy Spirit: if you forgive any man his sins, they shall be forgiven; and if you retain any mans sins, they shall be retained.” Therefore, the power of forgiving sins was given to the Apostles and to the Churches which these men, sent by Christ, established; and to the bishops who succeeded them by being ordained in their place” (Letter to Cyprian 75:16 [A.D. 255-256]).

Here I believe the clarity of the situation in the CC + EO lies. I don’t see the CC as “authority” but an acknowledgement of scripture in real time that continues to exist. Here a prophecy of Jesus Christ is complete and the word of God is heard. Servant of Servants. A church which was consecrated by Blood from day one by the Aposles, is the scriptural brother to the other brother churchs. Being that Rome holds its place in history it certainly should be acknowledged and a advisor to the others, just as they should be an advisor to Rome. We are talking one family. Rome is the Primacy, all must be in total unity with the One Apostolic Church and the one is Everyone of these churchs with a valid claim to the Apostles.

St Peter/Rome/Papacy has been the spokesman for the church through history and rightfully so its the Holy Spirit who has but One Holy Apostolic Church the Mystical Body of Jesus Christ. Which functions as humans charged through the Holy Spirit with being the moral compass not only to themselves but for mankind in Gods will and by Gods will. This is also all the Apostles, though be it where they stand geographically working as one together. The Primacy is a position of Honor and elect which links the true lineage of the elect together.

I believe Benedict is researching now to confirm what is the actual duty of the Primacy of Rome is in relation to the other churchs.

The fact that the Primacy of Rome speaks for Christianity should “serve” to indicate the undivided, unanimous, theology, rooted to all the rooted churchs.

I don’t see the churchs today at an advantage being seperated. I fail to see this in view of the bold stance of evil today. Even in the most civil societys of man evil proudly stands seeking to destroy and enslave. 🤷

Make no mistake by my words here, this is “in my Humble Opinion” on how the Good News in the world of Christology in theological dialogue grows and expands in the positive. And it is also in line with scripture and the early fathers of the church when in fact schism was the topic.

May the Lord forgive me should I say something against His will. Here I digress to the thinking of the Hard Core Catholic’s and Orthodox flock. Nonetheless though first among equals may not be the final understanding of Rome, is it not a valid debate?

May God have Mercy on us.

Peace, Gary
 
GaryTaylor said:
Just to note we are all on the same page that all the EO churchs have valid Apostolic Succession?
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Orthodox think so …
GaryTaylor said:
How does the EO view the lineage of the Lutheran Church? …
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The Orthodox do not have a view of it.

When a person is outside of the church, teaching non-Orthodox things, he is not an Orthodox bishop and cannot make an Orthodox bishop.

There is no such thing as a “Dutch Touch” outside of the church.
 
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