'orthodox' Catholics and 'honest' academics

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DL82

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This is just an observation of something I have noticed among some posters on the Catholic Answers Forum, myself included.

It seems that there are many people here who only read authors who they think are ‘100% orthodox’, or only read works which bear an +Imprimatur. Many of these authors seem to take a perspective toward theology and philosophy which begins with the idea that they know all that needs to be known, and are merely presenting the known truths of faith in new words. There is a place for this kind of work, that place is in apologetics and catechesis.

It is not, however, the way the great Doctors of the Church and others have approached theological enquiry across the centuries. There was always a speculative element and a trust in the power of reason, rightly disciplined, to further our knowledge by deductive enquiry. At times, this led even the greatest Doctors into error (St Augustine’s views on marriage, for example, Bl John Duns Scotus on the Eucharist, or Origen on the conversion of the demons at the end of time), provided they were not stubborn defenders of heresy, this did not prevent them being beatified. At times, even those names considered at the heart of orthodoxy, like St Thomas Aquinas, were considered dangerously progressive.

In my pre-Catholic days I flirted with Socialism. I could appreciate the views of some authors influenced by Marxism, but I couldn’t cope with the idea, promulgated by Socialist parties, that those who could be trusted in the struggle were “workers, teachers and honest academics” - the definition of an “honest” academic is one who begins from the presumption that everything Marx and Engels wrote is 100% true and constructs their arguments in reverse from blind faith in the ideology. In other words, an “honest” academic is a dishonest one.

Catholic theological enquiry has never been ideological in this way. There seem to be some dangers in mature well-catechised Catholics only trusting those sources which never attempt anything beyond a re-presentation of what they already know, or think they know, about their faith. There is, it seems to me, something about traditional Catholic thought, as expounded in Fides et Ratio which puts faith in the independence of rational enquiry and its’ genuine ability to arrive at truths about the world and about reason itself, which admits of speculative philosophical and theological approaches, within certain constraints, which are not ‘orthodox’ in the way that those old Marxists were ‘honest’.
 
Catholic theological enquiry has never been ideological in this way. There seem to be some dangers in mature well-catechised Catholics only trusting those sources which never attempt anything beyond a re-presentation of what they already know, or think they know, about their faith.

A reading of Fides et Ratio certainly encourages critical thinking about your faith. I think that the point you raise above is valid. Many Catholics do not realize that the Church recognizes that only when you honestly address teachings that you don’t understand does your faith become strong.

Someone defined theology as “faith seeking understanding”. This is not simply questioning or trying to find some justification for something contrary to Church teaching.
What it is is spiritual growth.

An example of the wrong type of questioning can be found in the writings of Hans Kung and Gary Wills. When they question Church teaching in their writings they do not take the approach of seeking understanding. They have already made up their mind and are trying to prove their point.
 
An example of the wrong type of questioning can be found in the writings of Hans Kung and Gary Wills. When they question Church teaching in their writings they do not take the approach of seeking understanding. They have already made up their mind and are trying to prove their point.
But the answer to this approach is not to do the same but with your mind made up in the opposite direction, but rather to be open to genuinely seek understanding.
 
But the answer to this approach is not to do the same but with your mind made up in the opposite direction, but rather to be open to genuinely seek understanding.

You are certainly correct and this is consistent with Church teaching.
 
There seem to be some dangers in **mature well-catechised Catholics **only trusting those sources which never attempt anything beyond a re-presentation of what they already know, or think they know, about their faith.
I think the highlighted part of your comment might offer something to reflect upon.
You offered that important qualification, I believe, because you do not agree that poorly formed, unsubstantially catechized Catholics should read and study sources which are not 100% orthodox Catholic in content.

I’ll take it a step farther and wonder: Where are the mature, well-catechized Catholics in the Church today? Do we find them in the vast majority of the faithful – even of that minority who go to Mass each week and try to observe the commandments of God?

Here’s another question (rhetorical but I hope useful):
Can we afford any more experimentation from would-be neo-Fathers of the Church which yeild a large amount of chaff and error in proportion to a minimal bit of orthodox insight?

My view comes with a bias of the post-1970s catechetical disaster. We might forget the divine gift which came as a brilliant beam of light in a dark landscape – the 1994 Catechism of the Catholic Church, which was produced to address this very problem. But I recall those days vividly, and I really don’t think that the Church, as a whole, has yet fully absorbed all of that orthodox teaching.

I think we’ve seen a lot of would-be Augustines, Origens, Jeromes and Aquinas’ out there who claimed to take theology to some new ground but who caused a lot of damage.

All of that said – you’re post is good and correct within the framework of mature, well-catechized Catholics. It’s essential to make the message of the Gospel understandable to every generation, and that often requires a learning of new ideas and methods for explaining and teaching the Faith – and also learning about the new challenges and errors that we face.

The idea that we should read and study 100% orthodox Catholic materials is a time-tested and solid practice that produces excellent results. It can take a lifetime to truly possess a mature faith, because that maturity comes not merely from reading and studying, but from praying and being tested by challenges, temptations and decisions in one’s life.

This doesn’t mean that Catholicism requires a lock-step approach to theology. But the task of a theologian comes with the need for a great deal of trust. Personal holiness, fidelity to the defined teachings of the Church, submission to the Magisterium, the humility to accept correction, true scholarship of the orthodox sources … if those things are in place, then perhaps we’ll see a new Augustine or Duns Scotus or Bonaventure.

But lacking those qualities, I think we’ll just see more theological-hacks who are filling with world with their speculations and erroneous opinions. In my view, there is a vast number of such supposed innovators and they’ve caused a lot of damage in the Catholic world.

As a last suggestion – if we spend a lot of time reading CAF postings (as I do) from the faithful Catholics here, we might have the mistaken impression that there are a very large number of Catholics who want to stay totally faithful to 100% Catholic teaching in their study, learning and recommendation. I only wish that was true. I think we have many who have fought battles to preserve and teach the pure Catholic doctrine here – and they’re still, today a minority who we are blessed to meet on this forum.

But “out there” it’s very different and orthodox teaching is challenged on every side, even by many of our fellow Catholics in the pews next to us.

So - very thoughful and good post (please don’t interpret my remarks as a criticism) and thanks for your patience in reading this rambling reply! 🙂
 
But the answer to this approach is not to do the same but with your mind made up in the opposite direction, but rather to be open to genuinely seek understanding.
+Christianity . . . as taught by our Holy Mother Church . . . is by no means a “religion” of human reason alone . . . rather it is a . . . relationship . . with . . . TRUTH . . . Who . . . is our . . . Crucified Resurrected Ascended Lord Jesus Christ Himself . . . God Incarnate . . .

The Holy :bible1: Bible

Jesus

saith to him:
I am the WAY, and the TRUTH, and the LIFE.
No man cometh to the Father, but by me.
John 14:6

At the beginning of Fides et ratio is recorded a blessing from our highly esteemed Holy Father . . . Pope John Paul the Great . . . which brings into focus . . . **human reason ** . . . and its significance in . . . participating with . . . God . . . in the salvific nature of the Holy Gift of Christian Faith . . .

Faith and reason are like two wings on which the human spirit rises to the contemplation of TRUTH; and God has placed in the human heart a desire to know the TRUTH—in a word, to know HIMSELF—so that, by knowing and loving ❤️ God, men and women may also come to the fullness of truth about themselves (cf. Ex 33:18; Ps 27:8-9; 63:2-3; Jn 14:8; 1 Jn 3:2).”

Continuing on in Fides et ratio, Chapter 1, Section #9 . . .

"…Based upon God’s testimony and enjoying the supernatural assistance of grace, FAITH is of an order other than philosophical knowledge which depends upon sense perception and experience and which advances by the light of the intellect alone. Philosophy and the sciences function within the order of natural reason; while faith, enlightened and guided by the Spirit, recognizes in the message of salvation the “fullness of grace and truth” (cf. Jn 1:14) which God has willed to reveal in history and definitively through his Son, Jesus Christ (cf. 1 Jn 5:9; Jn 5:31-32)."​
Link: vatican.va/edocs/ENG0216/__P1.HTM

While we would all like to have completely trustworthy and infallible human teachers . . . each of them also as fallen sinners saved by Grace . . . also . . . must work/have-worked out their own salvation . . . step by step . . . making mistakes along the way . . . with fear and trembling before God . . . and it is always a good idea . . . prudent and wise . . . to keep in mind in relation to teachers and such things as +Imprimaturs . . . the Sacred :bible1: Scripture** . . .
*
For all have sinned,
and come short of the glory of God*. Romans 3:23
:bible1:
. . . for only the truths which Holy Mother Church has deemed as infallible . . . such as
Sacred :bible1: Scripture
. . . can be trusted implicitly to be free from error . . .

:bible1: “For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord.” Isaiah 55:8

. . . all for Jesus+
. . . thank You Dear Lord+
. . . thank you Blessed Virgin Mary+
. . . thank you Holy Mother Church+
 
My view comes with a bias of the post-1970s catechetical disaster. We might forget the divine gift which came as a brilliant beam of light in a dark landscape – the 1994 Catechism of the Catholic Church, which was produced to address this very problem. But I recall those days vividly, and I really don’t think that the Church, as a whole, has yet fully absorbed all of that orthodox teaching.

We often hear of poor catechesis, but I have to ask what is good catechesis? Christ often used agrarian themes in his parables because he apparently taught to a rural society, many of whom probably did not read or write. St. Paul worked in cities so used different themes and wrote letters. The Synoptic Gospels are very much the same, but with slightly different slants because they addressed different ethnic and religious groups. Christ’s message is constant, but the challenge is to effectively relate it to society. My parents did not go past 6th grade. I have a college degree while 2 of my children have bachelor degrees and the other 2 have masters. Any catechesis has to keep in mind that a better educated society will need catechesis that addresses it in a meaningful way.

My wife and I are involved in catechesis both with teens and adults. Any materials we use come from the diocesan office with a “one size fits all” approach. The materials are 100% orthodox and 90% ineffective. As a result, people go through religious education programs and you eventually see very few in church. I think it is because they are not encouraged to actively engage challenges to their faith.
 
Thanks for the feedback, it’s always good to have some friendly and constructive criticism. I agree that it’s sometimes hard to know what is or isn’t orthodox anymore, we seem to have lost sight of the ‘centre ground’ of Catholic thought based on rational reflection on the known truths of faith, replacing it with an averaging out of different opinions.

Another threat that comes with this loss is the idea of philosophical ‘sword swallowing’, which devalues the importance of natural reason. It’s too easy for some on the fringes to suggest that the natural reason of the majority, even the majority of Catholics, has become so debased and distorted by sin and error that we can almost forget it altogether.

A prime example of a secular ‘sword swallower’ is the utilitarian philosopher Peter Singer. His argument in favour of abortion is that a child only has a right to life when it is self-aware. When his opponents point out to him that most child psychologists believe a child below about 5 months old is not self-aware, and ask why a child in the womb has fewer rights than a child outside the womb, Singer’s answer is simply to agree that a child outside the womb can also be terminated :eek:. In taking such an approach, Singer is simply not doing philosophy, because he isn’t listening to our inherent moral compass, our natural reason, which, irrespective of the logic of his position, cries out in disgust against such an idea. Even the most distorted of pro-abortion materialists find such an idea abhorrent.

In a similar fashion, there are those who seek to defend a radically traditional understanding of Catholic doctrine who, when faced with the critique of ‘Liberation Theology’ that the pre-modern Church emphasised the acceptance of suffering and oppression, rather than trying to challenge it, merely ‘swallow the sword’. Rather than trying to find an answer to this critique, and I believe there is much that traditional Catholic theology can do to challenge this caricature, they just accept that to be Catholic is to engage in some kind of spiritual masochism. I don’t believe that’s what Christ came to do, liberation theologians don’t believe that’s what Christ came to do, but that doesn’t make me a liberation theologian (in fact, I’m not a theologian at all). I can’t swallow an approach which exalts suffering without qualification, but I don’t think such an approach is Catholic, as it ignores our natural reason, which even in its’ fallen nature, still wants to challenge oppression and unnecessary suffering (albeit sometimes in the wrong ways, i.e. liberation theology).

At the heart of such an approach, I believe, is an acceptance of the postmodern idea that knowledge is simply a form of power, that if enough people could be convinced to argue for a radical rejection of the discourse of freedom and rights then that ‘alternative’ view would become valued knowlege. It is the same argument that lies at the heart of the protestant Young Earth Creationists, if enough people shout loudly enough, this will have to be accepted as a valid alternative to empirical science. We can’t fight groundless liberalism with groundless conservatism, but with a return to metaphysical claims of truth, known through faith, attainable and defensible through right reason.
 
Excellent! Very well put.You put into words what I have thinking!God Bless and have a Happy New Year!🙂
 
DL82,

Wow, very well said here. You have spoken my mind in many respects. As an anecdote in support of your general challenge in the OP, I offer something about a philosopher you mention later in this thread: Peter Singer.

First, I agree with everythIng you said about him. However, in an ethical theory course I had in college, I read an article by him called “Famine, Affluence and Morality.” (He has subsequently expanded those arguments into a book published recently.) But, I can say this about Singer in that article: he was dead on. I think his positions in that article are not only correct but his reasoning is perfectly sound too. And yet, that came from Peter Singer, the man whose otherwise wild positions have taken great opposition from Catholics!

I offer this little story in support of your contentions here. If the like of such massively impressive minds (eg, Aquinas and Scotus) thought it not only fit but useful to engage with pagan scholars like Aristotle, why would the later Church not follow this same pattern? The point in this regard for Aquinas was well-put: you look for the light in this world wherever you can find it. And you don’t have to be a scholar to look for truth and appreciate it when you find it, no matter what the source.

Again, this OP is just so well-put and right on.
 
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