Orthodox catholics

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Marybeloved said:
I also think that if I had no other choice and they did not ask about my church or specifically state that no Orthodox should come up for reception, I would take communion or penance, if it was possible to do it anonymously. I certainly would waste no precious seconds fretting over “damning my soul” for it, unless I approached the Lord with unrepented mortal sin or without reverance; Plus the Orthodox wouldn’t know it and so wouldn’t have to be offended or scandalized by my receiption. Only the Lord and I would know and I don’t see him being offended by my receiving him just because some people would, especially if no one is aware of it or harmed by it in any way. While they may believe they’re protecting the Lord from me, I don’t -so if I had no other choice and I could do it without scandalizing anyone or having to lie, I would. But it’s highly unlikely that I wouldn’t be able to find Catholic options or that I’d be able to do it anonymously so it’s all purely hypothetical anyway.
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ByzCathCantor, this up here was my very first post. Anyone can see that my first line was clearly about having no other choice. So what original statement are you really talking about? Were you conversing and getting upset without actually following my posts? You even asked me to report on attempting to receive and I plainly told you there was no way I would considering I wasn’t in such a position. :confused:
ByzCathCantor said:
That is not how you prefaced your original staktement. If there were no other choice, permission would still need to be sought in advance, assuming this is not a single instance where there was some immediate danger of death or other grave circumstance. If you live in an area where there are no Catholic churches in reasonable distance, permission may be sought to receive the sacraments on a regular basis in an Orthodox church.
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Plus the example originally given was of a once off thing. It’s hard to imagine doing this on a “regular basis” without the people knowing you were Catholic.
 
Marybeloved

If you present yourself at the chalice - you will be questioned pretty carefully - have you made a recent Confession , who is your priest , do you have his permission to attend and approach the chalice etc etc.

You state
I would take communion or penance, if it was possible to do it anonymously. I certainly would waste no precious seconds fretting over “damning my soul” for it, unless I approached the Lord with unrepented mortal sin or without reverance; Plus the Orthodox wouldn’t know it and so wouldn’t have to be offended or scandalized by my receiption.
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I know of no Orthodox Priest , and I know quite a few , who would not question ANY stranger who approached the chalice , without seeing them beforehand .

Orthodox Priests guard the chalice very very carefully
 
The_Idiot said:
Marybeloved

If you present yourself at the chalice - you will be questioned pretty carefully - have you made a recent Confession , who is your priest , do you have his permission to attend and approach the chalice etc etc.

You state

I know of no Orthodox Priest , and I know quite a few , who would not question ANY stranger who approached the chalice , without seeing them beforehand .

Orthodox Priests guard the chalice very very carefully
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I realize that. I pretty much admitted it in my first post where I said it was purely hypothetical and unlikely.
 
I don’t consider it disrespect since its not a norm but a situation in which I felt the necessity and I knew it would not harm any of the members. I found this document explaining it and I don’t see any of the conditions that Byzcath suggested. (Sorry, have tried to paste the link but my phone wont co-operate, but its an ewtn doc about receiving outside the church). Plus I don’t see why I’m expected to believe that such a situation would kill my soul (I don’t) simply because many Orthodox believe so- Is that the outlook you would approve of in a fellow Catholic? I just don’t share it. That’s the honest truth.
 
Marybeloved said:
I disagree. It’s a very hypothetical thing that would never happen in most situations and no Orthodox would know. If they did then you could talk about arrogance. I simply don’t believe I’d be damned for this, and that’s what I’m saying. Same as the example with the confessing communing Protestant, I simply could not presume to say they’d be damned for this.
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How does this not make it deception?

Taking the host and stomping on it is ok as long as no Catholics know, right?
 
TEPO said:
How come none of the Orthodox here have made this claim?
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Because you seeking permission has nothing to do with us. Granting it is another matter, but we certainly aren’t going to bar you from talking from a priest or bishop to seek the permission.
 
Nine_Two said:
How does this not make it deception?

Taking the host and stomping on it is ok as long as no Catholics know, right?
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There’s no deception unless I were asked and lied that I was. I don’t believe I have the obligation of announcing it if I felt a necessity and the hypothetical example was if it were possible to do it without lying.

I won’t bother with the second remark since this is the “outlook” I don’t share, that my approaching the Lord with reverance and no mortal sin is to you same as stomping on him. I just don’t accept your convictions on the matter.
 
But isn’t omission considered a form of deception in Catholic moral theology? Is it not proper that one should ask the bishop for permission to commune? Were I, for example, in Egypt and unable to find a Church there of my own communion, I would not feel comfortable just walking into a Coptic Orthodox Church and communing without first obtaining the permission of my bishop and of the Coptic Orthodox bishop. That is because the Eucharist is not just about me and Jesus; it is about the entire eucharistic community there gathered and Christ, and to take communion (without any sort of dispensation) with them while we are in a state of division would be a grave failure to discern the Body of my Lord, as Paul admonishes us to do in 1 Corinthians 11.

[BIBLEDRB]1 Corinthians 11:17-29[/BIBLEDRB]
 
Marybeloved said:
There’s no deception unless I were asked and lied that I was. I don’t believe I have the obligation of announcing it if I felt a necessity and the hypothetical example was if it were possible to do it without lying.

I won’t bother with the second remark since this is the “outlook” I don’t share, that my approaching the Lord with reverance and no mortal sin is to you same as stomping on him. I just don’t accept your convictions on the matter.
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I’m watching the movie Braveheart on Netflix right now. There is a scene where the Scots dress as English soldiers to gain entrance to an English fort so they can attack it from inside. No one asks who they are. Are you telling me this is not deception? They never told anyone they were English.
 
Cavaradossi said:
But isn’t omission considered a form of deception in Catholic moral theology? Is it not proper that one should ask the bishop for permission to commune?
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The situation hypothesized is a once off thing. And omission is a sin if there’s an obligation. I honestly don’t think that if I needed it, and it was not a norm, that doing it that once if there were no risk of scandal or upsetting the Orthodox members that I would be sinning just because I’m Catholic.
 
Nine_Two said:
Because you seeking permission has nothing to do with us. Granting it is another matter, but we certainly aren’t going to bar you from talking from a priest or bishop to seek the permission.
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Well we already have permission. Our Church tells us to go for it, assuming that its not possible to receive in a Catholic parish.
 
Nine_Two said:
I’m watching the movie Braveheart on Netflix right now. There is a scene where the Scots dress as English soldiers to gain entrance to an English fort so they can attack it from inside. No one asks who they are. Are you telling me this is not deception? They never told anyone they were English.
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Oh I’ve got Netflix… I’m gonna watch that tonight!👍
 
Nine_Two said:
I’m watching the movie Braveheart on Netflix right now. There is a scene where the Scots dress as English soldiers to gain entrance to an English fort so they can attack it from inside. No one asks who they are. Are you telling me this is not deception? They never told anyone they were English.
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Right. I’m an enemy invading your fortress so as to attack you. Nine two, I just don’t share your convictions. You believe I’m there to harm you and I’m some sort of spy. I believe I’m in real need of a sacrament, I’m out of options and I can get it there.
 
“What we have here is a total lack of respect for the law!”

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

Nine_Two - couldn’t resist, since you mentioned movies.

And what would a movie be without 🍿
 
Marybeloved said:
I also think that if I had no other choice and they did not ask about my church or specifically state that no Orthodox should come up for reception, I would take communion or penance, if it was possible to do it anonymously. I certainly would waste no precious seconds fretting over “damning my soul” for it, unless I approached the Lord with unrepented mortal sin or without reverance; Plus the Orthodox wouldn’t know it and so wouldn’t have to be offended or scandalized by my receiption. Only the Lord and I would know and I don’t see him being offended by my receiving him just because some people would, especially if no one is aware of it or harmed by it in any way. While they may believe they’re protecting the Lord from me, I don’t -so if I had no other choice and I could do it without scandalizing anyone or having to lie, I would. But it’s highly unlikely that I wouldn’t be able to find Catholic options or that I’d be able to do it anonymously so it’s all purely hypothetical anyway.
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Catholics are instructed not to do so by the Catholic Church. DIRECTORY FOR THE APPLICATION OF PRINCIPLES AND NORMS ON ECUMENISM123. Whenever necessity requires or a genuine spiritual advantage suggests, and provided that the danger of error or indifferentism is avoided, it is lawful for any Catholic for whom it is physically or morally impossible to approach a Catholic minister, to receive the sacraments of penance, Eucharist and anointing of the sick from a minister of an Eastern Church.128
  1. Since practice differs between Catholics and Eastern Christians in the matter of frequent communion, confession before communion and the Eucharistic fast, care must be taken to avoid scandal and suspicion among Eastern Christians through Catholics not following the Eastern usage. A Catholic who legitimately wishes to communicate with Eastern Christians must respect the Eastern discipline as much as possible and refrain from communicating if that Church restricts sacramental communion to its own members to the exclusion of others.
  2. Catholic ministers may lawfully administer the sacraments of penance, Eucharist and the anointing of the sick to members of the Eastern Churches, who ask for these sacraments of their own free will and are properly disposed.
    In these particular cases also, due consideration should be given to the discipline of the Eastern Churches for their own faithful and any suggestion of proselytism should be avoided.129
vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/chrstuni/general-docs/rc_pc_chrstuni_doc_19930325_directory_en.html
 
Thanks for the information, Vico. Would that apply even in necessity?
 
Marybeloved said:
Thanks for the information, Vico. Would that apply even in necessity?
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Yes.

123 “Whenever necessity requires or a genuine spiritual advantage suggests,”

and

“provided that the danger of error or indifferentism is avoided”

and

124 “must respect the Eastern discipline as much as possible”

and

“refrain from communicating if that Church restricts sacramental communion to its own members to the exclusion of others”
 
TEPO said:
Well we already have permission. Our Church tells us to go for it, assuming that its not possible to receive in a Catholic parish.
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First off your church says to respect the wishes of the other churches involved.

But even if it didn’t. The Catholic Church has no right to give you permission to do anything in our churches. It would be like if your neighbor gave me permission to eat your food. The world doesn’t work like that.
 
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