Orthodox Church with the best relations with Rome?

[NorthTexan88]

I know that there are several posts on CAF about the relationship between the Orthodox Churches and the Catholic Church. I am wanting to know that out of all of the individual Orthodox Churches, which one has the closest relationship with Rome? Which one would most likely come back into communion with the Catholic Church?

For example, I have an Armenian friend who is Orthodox but she says that in Armenia there is a lot of intersharing between the Orthodox and Catholic Church there, so I would say the Armenian Church, are there other Churches like this?

 

[Aramis]

I know that there are several posts on CAF about the relationship between the Orthodox Churches and the Catholic Church. I am wanting to know that out of all of the individual Orthodox Churches, which one has the closest relationship with Rome? Which one would most likely come back into communion with the Catholic Church?

For example, I have an Armenian friend who is Orthodox but she says that in Armenia there is a lot of intersharing between the Orthodox and Catholic Church there, so I would say the Armenian Church, are there other Churches like this?

There are formal provisions for the Syrian Orthodox and Syrian Catholics, and for the Assyrian Church of the East and the Chaldeans.

The Armenians seem to be the most open to communing Catholics, and allowing their faithful to receive in the Catholic Communion as a whole. It’s even been blogged by some Armenian priests that some of their parishes have more KofC stickers in the parking lot than the local Roman cathedral… And that Armenians share deacons back and forth. Then again, The Armenian Orthodox seem to hold the belief that the one diocese coming into union with rome didn’t mean axiomatically that it broke communion with them. They’re not, as a body, close to a corporate union, but in practical terms, they’re about as close as they can be to full communion with Rome without corporate union.

Note that all three cases are with churches that are not Byzantine Rite. The Eastern Orthodox as a communion of Churches rejects out of hand Union with Rome. On the ground, individual pastors make occasional exceptions. The Romanian Orthodox, however, have been moving towards communion with Rome, but the synod is not unanimous. The Kyivan Patriarchate Ukrainian Orthodox likewise have been engaged in joint efforts outside the liturgy and are noted for being on very good terms with the UGCC, but are not moving towards a corporate union with rome.

The Antiochian Orthodox have been known to commune Melkite Catholics, despite officially not permitting Catholics to receive. The ACROD have been known to allow Ruthenian Catholics to receive, as well. Neither of these two are making any inroads towards communion, and both are noted for only allowing communion for their parallel church, and not for other Catholic Churches.

 

[AnthonyJ]

Interesting about the Romanian Orthodox. Is the Romanian Patriarch open to union with Rome? How do the laity of the Romanian Church feel about a reunion? Thanks.

Note that all three cases are with churches that are not Byzantine Rite. The Eastern Orthodox as a communion of Churches rejects out of hand Union with Rome. On the ground, individual pastors make occasional exceptions. The Romanian Orthodox, however, have been moving towards communion with Rome, but the synod is not unanimous. The Kyivan Patriarchate Ukrainian Orthodox likewise have been engaged in joint efforts outside the liturgy and are noted for being on very good terms with the UGCC, but are not moving towards a corporate union with rome.

The Antiochian Orthodox have been known to commune Melkite Catholics, despite officially not permitting Catholics to receive. The ACROD have been known to allow Ruthenian Catholics to receive, as well. Neither of these two are making any inroads towards communion, and both are noted for only allowing communion for their parallel church, and not for other Catholic Churches.

 

[iepuras]

Interesting about the Romanian Orthodox. Is the Romanian Patriarch open to union with Rome? How do the laity of the Romanian Church feel about a reunion? Thanks.

I’m not surprised to hear that about the Romanian Orthodox Church. My husband was Romanian Orthodox and just did the Profession of Faith yesterday to become Catholic (Romanian Catholic but the parish we attend is Latin Rite. The Byzantine Catholic Church is just too far!). Even though my husband was Orthodox, he frequently went to the Catholic Church with his Orthodox parents. My husband is no theologian but he has always viewed the Orthodox and Catholic churches as the same catholic, orthodox, apostolic church. He views the Great Schism as being a political division and not a theological one. I don’t know how common his view is among Romanian laity but maybe it is more common than many think.

BTW, I am eager to learn more about the Eastern Catholic churches as my husband is from that tradition. I am in RCIA and will be joining under the Latin Rite but I want my children to know and experience their heritage.

 

[Denho]

I’m not surprised to hear that about the Romanian Orthodox Church. My husband was Romanian Orthodox and just did the Profession of Faith yesterday to become Catholic (Romanian Catholic but the parish we attend is Latin Rite. The Byzantine Catholic Church is just too far!). Even though my husband was Orthodox, he frequently went to the Catholic Church with his Orthodox parents. My husband is no theologian but he has always viewed the Orthodox and Catholic churches as the same catholic, orthodox, apostolic church. He views the Great Schism as being a political division and not a theological one. I don’t know how common his view is among Romanian laity but maybe it is more common than many think.

BTW, I am eager to learn more about the Eastern Catholic churches as my husband is from that tradition. I am in RCIA and will be joining under the Latin Rite but I want my children to know and experience their heritage.

You could easily become a member of the Romanian Greek-Catholic Church since your husband will already have been enrolled as such. There is no need for you to be Latin and divide your family’s ecclesial tradition.

 

[rciadan]

You could easily become a member of the Romanian Greek-Catholic Church since your husband will already have been enrolled as such. There is no need for you to be Latin and divide your family’s ecclesial tradition.

So true! If you want them to know their heritage, let them grow up in it!

 

[iepuras]

You could easily become a member of the Romanian Greek-Catholic Church since your husband will already have been enrolled as such. There is no need for you to be Latin and divide your family’s ecclesial tradition.

How would that work? There are two Eastern Catholic churches in Houston. Both are at least an hour drive away. The Latin Rite parish we are attending is much, much closer. Admittedly, I don’t understand how it all works. I was raised Mormon and recently left that church. I want to be part of a parish where we all live in the same community. It would be very difficult for us to be part of parish life if we attended the Byzantine Catholic Church.

I do need to clarify some things with our pastor and the deacon we are working with. Because my husband is now officially Romanian Greek Catholic, I think our children are baptized under that rite as it follows the father’s rite? I’m unbaptized, and we have to be married in the Catholic Church prior to my baptism. The deacon told us that we need two dispensations for our marriage. One for my husband to marry a non-Christian and another for our local parish to perform the marriage (I think). We do have to follow the Eastern Catholic rules, so we have to have a priest perform the ceremony rather than a deacon, which is allowed under the Latin Rite.

So much to learn! I admit I know very little and have lots to learn. I never knew it could get so complicated when a Romanian and an American marry and several years and children later decide to become Catholic!

 

[neokarny]

I know that there are several posts on CAF about the relationship between the Orthodox Churches and the Catholic Church. I am wanting to know that out of all of the individual Orthodox Churches, which one has the closest relationship with Rome? Which one would most likely come back into communion with the Catholic Church?

For example, I have an Armenian friend who is Orthodox but she says that in Armenia there is a lot of intersharing between the Orthodox and Catholic Church there, so I would say the Armenian Church, are there other Churches like this?

Well, I suppose it depends on what you mean when you ask those questions.

By “closest relationship” and “come back into communion” do you mean those that are most likely to abandon the EO or OO communions and come under Rome (directly or otherwise)? Or do you mean most likely to enter into intercommunion agreements?

If the former, I’d say probably none. Most of the churches, both EO and OO, have come to be pretty strong about doing that sort of thing alongside their respective communion of churches, and I don’t see any of the churches actually breaking union in order to do so. If the latter, then I’d say: Armenians, Syriac, Malankara, Antiochians, and maybe the Ecumenical Patriarchate and Copts. There may be other EO churches that are likewise more inclined, but I’m not too familiar with them.

As others have said, there are strong relations and pastoral agreements between the Antiochian, Syriac, Melkite, and possibly (IIRC) Maronite Churches. E.g., it’s sometimes legitimate to be a fully participating and communing parishioner as an Antiochian in a Melkite parish, and vice-versa, if a parish of your own is not nearby. I believe you can even have inter-church godparents, etc.

 

[NorthTexan88]

Awesome, thanks for all of the answers!

I went to visit my friend and went to Mass (Badark?) with her and she told me I was allowed to take communion there (as there was apparently other Catholics there doing so). However, I didn’t think I was suppose too bc I’m not Orthodox, is this right? She also said I could go to the Armenian Church in Dallas cause it was “basically Catholic.” Apparently intercomunion among the Armenians is fairly common.

 

[aemcpa]

How would that work? There are two Eastern Catholic churches in Houston. Both are at least an hour drive away. The Latin Rite parish we are attending is much, much closer. Admittedly, I don’t understand how it all works. I was raised Mormon and recently left that church. I want to be part of a parish where we all live in the same community. It would be very difficult for us to be part of parish life if we attended the Byzantine Catholic Church.

I do need to clarify some things with our pastor and the deacon we are working with. Because my husband is now officially Romanian Greek Catholic, I think our children are baptized under that rite as it follows the father’s rite? I’m unbaptized, and we have to be married in the Catholic Church prior to my baptism. The deacon told us that we need two dispensations for our marriage. One for my husband to marry a non-Christian and another for our local parish to perform the marriage (I think). We do have to follow the Eastern Catholic rules, so we have to have a priest perform the ceremony rather than a deacon, which is allowed under the Latin Rite.

So much to learn! I admit I know very little and have lots to learn. I never knew it could get so complicated when a Romanian and an American marry and several years and children later decide to become Catholic!

You could ask to be baptized in your husband’s church along with your children, and then simply attend the Latin Rite parish. There is nothing to prevent an Eastern Catholic family from attending a Latin Rite parish.

 

[5Loaves]

You could ask to be baptized in your husband’s church along with your children, and then simply attend the Latin Rite parish. There is nothing to prevent an Eastern Catholic family from attending a Latin Rite parish.

Fully iniated: baptized, and chrismated, and communed. It would be recorded in the Baptismal record of the Latin Church, or another sui uris Church, where the Mysteries take place, that they are Romanian Catholic. Nothing in canon law prevents one Church from catechizing someone to be iniated into another Church. We’re possibly going to be engaged in that process with someone leaving our area for a time.

 

[Peter_J]

I know that there are several posts on CAF about the relationship between the Orthodox Churches and the Catholic Church. I am wanting to know that out of all of the individual Orthodox Churches, which one has the closest relationship with Rome? **Which one would most likely come back into communion with the Catholic Church? **

Hi NorthTexan. I could write pages and pages on this, but it would basically all boil down to “No, none of them”.

But I would change that to a very soft “Maybe” if the question were expanded to include the Assryian Church of the East (ACoE). But note that I’m thereby changing the question in two fundamental ways: First, you asked about Orthodox, and the ACoE isn’t Orthodox; Second, the ACoE isn’t in full communion with any other churches, so if they did enter into communion with Rome it wouldn’t be a matter of switching-sides, so to speak.

I don’t want to rehash a recent thread we had about Catholic-ACoE relations, but let me (re)post this link:
www.zenit.org/en/articles/cardinal-kasper-on-the-assyrian-church
That’s from 2007. Sadly, relations have gone downhill a little since then, but still pretty good.

 

[Peter_J]

As others have said, there are strong relations and pastoral agreements between the Antiochian, Syriac, Melkite, and possibly (IIRC) Maronite Churches. E.g., it’s sometimes legitimate to be a fully participating and communing parishioner as an Antiochian in a Melkite parish, and vice-versa, if a parish of your own is not nearby. I believe you can even have inter-church godparents, etc.

I notice you mentioned Maronite Catholics. Are you referring to relations between Maronites and Syrian Orthodox? (I’m interested in learning more about that, but I rather see it discussed.)

 

[neokarny]

I notice you mentioned Maronite Catholics. Are you referring to relations between Maronites and Syrian Orthodox? (I’m interested in learning more about that, but I rather see it discussed.)

I’m honestly not sure what the specific relationship is between the Syriac Orthodox (or even Antiochian) and the Maronites, but my impression has always been that all of the various Churches of Antioch share a unique kinship.

Maybe one of this board’s resident Maronites will know more. I’m interested as well.

 

[Peter_J]

I’m honestly not sure what the specific relationship is between the Syriac Orthodox (or even Antiochian) and the Maronites, but my impression has always been that all of the various Churches of Antioch share a unique kinship.

Maybe one of this board’s resident Maronites will know more. I’m interested as well.

I too am unsure in terms of specific relationship, but I do know that the “West Syrian” family of Christian churches includes the Syriac Catholic Church, Maronite Church, and Syro-Malankara Catholic Church, along with the Syriac Orthodox Church, the Jacobite Syrian Orthodox Church, and the Malankara Orthodox Syrian Church. (Also a few reformed/independent churches, like the Mar Thoma Syrian Church.)

 

[malphono]

I’m honestly not sure what the specific relationship is between the Syriac Orthodox (or even Antiochian) and the Maronites, but my impression has always been that all of the various Churches of Antioch share a unique kinship.

Maybe one of this board’s resident Maronites will know more. I’m interested as well.

I too am unsure in terms of specific relationship, but I do know that the “West Syrian” family of Christian churches includes the Syriac Catholic Church, Maronite Church, and Syro-Malankara Catholic Church, along with the Syriac Orthodox Church, the Jacobite Syrian Orthodox Church, and the Malankara Orthodox Syrian Church. (Also a few reformed/independent churches, like the Mar Thoma Syrian Church.)

One also has to add-in the Chaldeans (plus, by extension, the Syro-Malabars, and, lest we forget, the ACoE) since the Syriac Churches all share a certain common patrimony from Edessa. The Melkites and the AOC, through their nominal association with Antioch, share some relation, mainly with the Western Syriac Churches. The Armenian Church can also be tangentially included, since it is an ancient and unique hybrid of Syriac & Byzantine tradition (with some later Latin influence thrown in for good measure ).

But indeed there is a kinship, and this is most evident in the Middle East where all are subject to the same problems at the hands of the “majority” religion. Inter-Church families are not all that uncommon there, e.g, part of a family may be Maronite while another part may be SOC, and a certain amount of inter-communion is not unusual. One sometimes sees the spill-over of that in the diaspora, but since our combined numbers are small in relation to the RCC, it’s far less noticeable.

I’m not sure if that helps answer the question, but I guess it’s a start.

 

[Peter_J]

One also has to add-in the Chaldeans (plus, by extension, the Syro-Malabars, and, lest we forget, the ACoE) since the Syriac Churches all share a certain common patrimony from Edessa. The Melkites and the AOC, through their nominal association with Antioch, share some relation, mainly with the Western Syriac Churches. The Armenian Church can also be tangentially included, since it is an ancient and unique hybrid of Syriac & Byzantine tradition (with some later Latin influence thrown in for good measure ).

But indeed there is a kinship, and this is most evident in the Middle East where all are subject to the same problems at the hands of the “majority” religion. Inter-Church families are not all that uncommon there, e.g, part of a family may be Maronite while another part may be SOC, and a certain amount of inter-communion is not unusual. One sometimes sees the spill-over of that in the diaspora, but since our combined numbers are small in relation to the RCC, it’s far less noticeable.

I’m not sure if that helps answer the question, but I guess it’s a start.

Yeah, I thought about adding a second paragraph, to name the 3 churches in the “East Syrian” family.

On a side note, not too long ago I got into the habit (the bad habit, I know believe) of using the term “Oriental Catholics” to mean just the 5 Catholic Churches that directly correspond to Oriental Orthodox. But recently I’ve come to believe that if we’re going to use that term, “Oriental Catholics”, it only makes sense to include the Maronites as well (and possibly also the Syro-Malabar and Chaldean Catholics).

 

[neokarny]

But indeed there is a kinship, and this is most evident in the Middle East where all are subject to the same problems at the hands of the “majority” religion. Inter-Church families are not all that uncommon there, e.g, part of a family may be Maronite while another part may be SOC, and a certain amount of inter-communion is not unusual. One sometimes sees the spill-over of that in the diaspora, but since our combined numbers are small in relation to the RCC, it’s far less noticeable.

That’s good to hear. Do you know if the relations are similar between the Maronites and the Antiochians like you mentioned between the SOC/Maronites? I know the Antiochians are close to the Melkites and the SOC respectively, but I wasn’t if they were likewise close to the Maronites (although I assumed they were).

 

[neokarny]

Yeah, I thought about adding a second paragraph, to name the 3 churches in the “East Syrian” family.

On a side note, not too long ago I got into the habit (the bad habit, I know believe) of using the term “Oriental Catholics” to mean just the 5 Catholic Churches that directly correspond to Oriental Orthodox. But recently I’ve come to believe that if we’re going to use that term, “Oriental Catholics”, it only makes sense to include the Maronites as well (and possibly also the Syro-Malabar and Chaldean Catholics).

I sometimes forget the Maronites are in the Syriac family of churches with how latinized so many often are, but even so I’m not sure I’d consider them “Oriental.” Were they ever non-Chalcedonian? I just ask since Oriental is usually reserved for those church traditions that came out of the non-Chalcedonian communion, rather than any specific rite(s) in and of themselves. Unless “Eastern Catholic” is specifically reserved for Byzantine-rite Catholics, and “Oriental Catholic” for everything else. Just a thought.

 

[malphono]

That’s good to hear. Do you know if the relations are similar between the Maronites and the Antiochians like you mentioned between the SOC/Maronites? I know the Antiochians are close to the Melkites and the SOC respectively, but I wasn’t if they were likewise close to the Maronites (although I assumed they were).

I gave only an example. It is equally true (if not more so, depending on the specific location) to find inter-ecclesial Maronite-Mellite or Maronite-AOC families.

And BTW, we **are **considered Orientals. Chalcedon only comes into play in terms of what came after. We were always Syriac, **never **Byzantine.