Orthodox Churches, and Eastern Rite

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adawgj

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Are there any Orthodox churches in full union with Rome?
While I’m Latin rite catholic, I know very little about the orthodox and Eastern churches, and wanted to know some basic similarities and differences that separate us because I want to know more about what goes on in the Eastern parts because the traditions and lifestyle are very special and unique.
 
Most people are not aware that the “Catholic Church” is actually comprised of twenty-three self-governing Catholic Churches, all in union with the pope. The Western, or Latin Catholic Church, is so large, however, that many people, even Catholics, are completely unaware of the other twenty-two churches, which make up the Eastern Branch. (Some have from only a few thousand members to a few million.)

Originally, there was only one denomination… the Catholic Church (the word Catholic meaning “universal”). However, there were five cities that early on were singled out as being important centers of Christianity. They were Jerusalem, Antioch, Alexandria, Constantinople, and of course, Rome. Each developed its own unique traditions and liturgy, but ALL shared a common theology and were in communion with each other and the Bishop of Rome, known as the Pope. However, about 1000 years ago, due to a variety of unfortunate problems, the other four cities, allied with the Byzantine Empire, mutually broke off from Rome, forming the various Eastern Orthodox Churches. Although doctrinally, they are virtually identical to Catholics, they refuse to acknowledge that the pope is more than a “first among equals”. (A couple groups broke of much earlier in the 400s AD also, to form what are known as the Oriental Orthodox Churches).

What has happened is that over time, some portions of each of the various Orthodox groups have decided to reconcile with the Catholic Church and come back into communion with Rome. When they do, they are allowed to keep all of their traditions and much of their independence, although they acknowledge the authority of the Pope. They become truly Catholic, in that anyone from ANY branch of the Catholic Church can participate in the liturgy and ceremonies of any OTHER branch of the Catholic Church. The only two Eastern groups that never fell out of communion with the Catholic Church were the Maronite Catholic Church, and the Italo-Albanian Catholic Church. So… for every branch of the Orthodox Churches that are NOT in communion with Rome, there is a corresponding and virtually identical branch of the Eastern Catholic Church that IS in communion with Rome. Since their customs and liturgies date from before the Council of Trent, they are allowed to remain.

The following liturgies are used by the Eastern Catholic Churches:
  • The Liturgy of St. Basil
  • The Chaldean Mass
  • The Order of the Divine and Holy Liturgy of Our Father Among the Saints Gregory the Theologian (or Liturgy of the Presanctified Gifts)
  • The Liturgy of St. James
  • The Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom
  • The Liturgy of St. Mark
  • The Holy Qorbono
continued…
 
Here is a listing that includes EACH of the twenty-three Catholic Churches in union with the Pope. Do not confuse “churches” with “rites”. A rite is a series of traditions, that includes different customs and liturgies. Several different churches may use the exact same rite. A Church has its own rules and separate line of authority to the Pope. It may also have a figure in charge, like a Metropolitan or a Patriarch (like an Archbishop), since these churches are generally very small and work very hard to preserve their unique traditions. The major rites are the Latin, Alexandrian, Antiochian, Armenian, Chaldean, and Byzantine.

**The Western (Latin) Catholic Church

Latin liturgical tradition**
  1. Ordinary Form (This is the form of the Mass that you will find in virtually every Latin Catholic Church almost every day of the week. This Mass has existed since the mid-1960s, ever since reforms were made following the Second Vatican Council.)
  2. Extraordinary Form (This is the form of the Mass that was used in virtually every Latin Catholic Church from the Middle Ages until the mid-1960s. It may still be said in Catholic Churches should a priest choose to use it. Some of the differences from the Ordinary Form include the exclusive use of the Latin language (except for the homily), the receipt of Communion exclusively on the tongue and kneeling, the priest facing the same direction as the people (toward the altar and God) so he can lead the people in prayer, no lay participation on the altar, and usually, no responses by lay people.)
  3. Ambrosian Rite (Only permitted in the Archdiocese of Milan)
  4. Mozarabic Rite (Only permitted in the Cathedral of Toledo, Spain and a few surrounding churches of the diocese)
  5. Bragan Rite (Only permitted in the Archdiocese of Braga, Portugal)
  6. Anglican-Use Mass (This form was once only permitted in the extremely rare circumstance in which an Anglican priest converted to Catholicism and brings his entire parish with him. In that event, a parish could continue to use the Anglican liturgy, with corrections to make it conform with Catholic teachings. It was originally meant as a transitional liturgy, and upon the death of the pastor, the church would revert to the Ordinary Form. With the recent provisions announced by the Vatican to allow Anglicans into the Catholic Church and keep their traditions, it seems that the Anglican-Use will now become both far more widespread AND permanent.)
**Rites of Religious Orders **
  1. Dominican Rite
  2. Carthusian Rite
  3. Carmelite Rite
  4. Cisternian Rite
Note: Technically, the forms of the Latin liturgy listed above are NOT different rites, but variations of the SAME rite, although people do tend to commonly use the term somewhat erroneously in this context. The differences between the Latin “rites” are FAR less than those between the Latin liturgy and any of the Eastern Rites.)

**The Eastern Catholic Churches
  1. Alexandrian liturgical tradition**
  2. Coptic Catholic Church (patriarchate): Egypt (1741)
  3. Ethiopian Catholic Church (metropolia): Ethiopia, Eritrea (1846)
    2. Antiochian (Antiochene or West-Syrian) liturgical tradition
  4. Maronite Church (patriarchate): Lebanon, Cyprus, Jordan, Israel, Palestine, Egypt, Syria, Argentina, Brazil, United States, Australia, Canada, Mexico (union re-affirmed 1182)
  5. Syriac Catholic Church (patriarchate): Lebanon, Iraq, Jordan, Kuwait, Palestine, Egypt, Sudan, Syria, Turkey, United States and Canada, Venezuela (1781)
  6. Syro-Malankara Catholic Church (major archiepiscopate): India, United States (1930)
    3. Armenian liturgical tradition:
  7. Armenian Catholic Church (patriarchate): Lebanon, Iran, Iraq, Egypt, Syria, Turkey, Jordan, Palestine, Ukraine, France, Greece, Latin America, Argentina, Romania, United States, Canada, Eastern Europe (1742)
    4. Chaldean or East Syrian liturgical tradition:
  8. Chaldean Catholic Church (patriarchate): Iraq, Iran, Lebanon, Egypt, Syria, Turkey, United States (1692)
  9. Syro-Malabar Church (major archiepiscopate): India, Middle East, Europe and America.
    5. Byzantine (Constantinopolitan) liturgical tradition:
  10. Albanian Greek Catholic Church (apostolic administration): Albania (1628)
  11. Belarusian Greek Catholic Church (no established hierarchy at present): Belarus (1596)
  12. Bulgarian Greek Catholic Church (apostolic exarchate): Bulgaria (1861)
  13. Byzantine Church of the Eparchy of Križevci (an eparchy and an apostolic exarchate): Croatia, Serbia and Montenegro (1611)
  14. Greek Byzantine Catholic Church (two apostolic exarchates): Greece, Turkey (1829)
  15. Hungarian Greek Catholic Church (an eparchy and an apostolic exarchate): Hungary (1646)
  16. Italo-Albanian Catholic Church (two eparchies and a territorial abbacy): Italy (Never separated)
  17. Macedonian Greek Catholic Church (an apostolic exarchate): Republic of Macedonia (1918)
  18. Melkite Greek Catholic Church (patriarchate): Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, Israel, Jerusalem, Brazil, United States, Canada, Mexico, Iraq, Egypt and Sudan, Kuwait, Australia, Venezuela, Argentina (1726)
  19. Romanian Church United with Rome, Greek-Catholic (major archiepiscopate): Romania, United States (1697)
  20. Russian Catholic Church: (two apostolic exarchates, at present with no published hierarchs): Russia, China (1905); currently about 20 parishes and communities scattered around the world, including five in Russia itself, answering to bishops of other jurisdictions
  21. Ruthenian Catholic Church (a sui juris metropolia, an eparchy, and an apostolic exarchate): United States, Ukraine, Czech Republic (1646)
  22. Slovak Greek Catholic Church (metropolia): Slovak Republic, Canada (1646)
  23. Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church (major archiepiscopate): Ukraine, Poland, United States, Canada, Great Britain, Australia, Germany and Scandinavia, France, Brazil, Argentina (1595)
 
adawgj said:
Are there any Orthodox churches in full union with Rome?
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Two part answer:
  1. No.
  2. All questions like this boil down to a matter of terminology. (If you, as a Christian in full communion with Rome, were to consider yourself to be “Orthodox”, then logically you would have to answer the above question in the affirmative.)
 
Peter_J said:
Two part answer:
  1. No.
  2. All questions like this boil down to a matter of terminology. (If you, as a Christian in full communion with Rome, were to consider yourself to be “Orthodox”, then logically you would have to answer the above question in the affirmative.)
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If your not orthodox your heterodox…that’s just not cool!😛
 
UncleBill said:
If your not orthodox your heterodox…that’s just not cool!😛
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😉 Yeah, I too noticed that adawgj switched from saying “Orthodox” in the first sentence to “orthodox” in the second (which I assume is what you’re referring to).
 
So what do you call a correct believing Orthodox Christian? An orthodox Orthodox? 😃

God bless,

Rony
 
Are there any Orthodox Churches that use the same liturgical rite as Eastern Catholics (i.e. Divine Liturgy of Saint John Chrysostom)? Couldn’t an Orthodox priest and Eastern Catholic priest concelebrate a Mass?
 
nschmitz10 said:
Are there any Orthodox Churches that use the same liturgical rite as Eastern Catholics (i.e. Divine Liturgy of Saint John Chrysostom)? Couldn’t an Orthodox priest and Eastern Catholic priest concelebrate a Mass?
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They use the same liturgy as far as I know. Concelebrating may be a problem because of the unity with Rome issue, or maybe not. I am not an authoritative source, for sure.
 
nschmitz10 said:
Are there any Orthodox Churches that use the same liturgical rite as Eastern Catholics (i.e. Divine Liturgy of Saint John Chrysostom)? Couldn’t an Orthodox priest and Eastern Catholic priest concelebrate a Mass?
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Well, they are physically capable of concelebrating, if that’s what you mean. (By way of comparison, you might consider the question “What could a man do with his neighbor’s wife?”)
 
rciadan said:
They use the same liturgy as far as I know. Concelebrating may be a problem because of the unity with Rome issue, or maybe not. I am not an authoritative source, for sure.
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I don’t know about the liturgical restrictions of the Byzantine churches (they’re a bit stricter than their geographically more eastern brothers in terms of communion, etc.) but I know amongst Syriac priests Maronites and Syriac Orthodox have concelebrated before.
 
MorEphrem said:
I don’t know about the liturgical restrictions of the Byzantine churches (they’re a bit stricter than their geographically more eastern brothers in terms of communion, etc.) but I know amongst Syriac priests Maronites and Syriac Orthodox have concelebrated before.
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Yes, it does happen on occasion, albeit that it’s rare and totally unofficial.

Again, while it’s rare and unofficial, it apparently also happens on occasion between the EO and EC. I personally know of at least one EC priest who has done so. (He was even invited to concelebrate by an an EO bishop.) Although I’ve no personal knowledge of it, I’ve also heard that this happens between Melkites and AOC.
 
malphono said:
Again, while it’s rare and unofficial, it apparently also happens on occasion between the EO and EC. I personally know of at least one EC priest who has done so. (He was even invited to concelebrate by an an EO bishop.) Although I’ve no personal knowledge of it, I’ve also heard that this happens between Melkites and AOC.
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Yes, I suppose it does. I don’t object to that claim, per se, but rather to it being presented as a Catholic “win”.

Consider: concelebration between Catholics and Anglicans surely does happen, but is that an Anglican “win”?
 
Peter_J said:
Yes, I suppose it does. I don’t object to that claim, per se, but rather to it being presented as a Catholic “win”.
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Seems to me if it has to be called a “win” for either side, it’s more an Orthodox one. When it happens, it’s usually in an Orthodox venue. 😉
Peter_J said:
Consider: concelebration between Catholics and Anglicans surely does happen, but is that an Anglican “win”?
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Now that’s another story completely, and I’m not going there. 😛
 
The whole Orthodox orthodox was nothing but a grammar mistake that I missed
 
Eastern catholics are fully catholics, while Eastern Orthodox are fully Schismatics and fully cesaropapists. How many councils have they held since the falling of the byzantine empire? How many pan-orthodox councils have they had since breaking with Rome? No one. They never had addressed Protestantism, nor any other of the heresies that have appeared since the great schism and the falling of the emperor of the Byzantine empire. Some of them may assert that protestantism is a western Heresy, but if they are the real church of Christ wouldn’t they have to address all heresies of interpretation of the bible? and, what about Old Calendarists? Are they in communion with Eastern Orthodoxy? don’t they require a council to address such broken away branch of Orthodoxy?

In fact we can’t speak of “an” Orthodox Church, because some of them even when proclaiming to be in communion cannot concelebrate because of hate and disputes between autocephalous patriarchates Do somebody ignores the case of Estonian Churches?.
 
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