Orthodox friend w/ conversion question

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My friend who is Eastern Orthodox asked me a qustion w/ regards to converting to Catholiscm… Since she is Eastern Orthodox if she converted she would automatcally become “Byzintine Catholic”. As a Byzintine Catholic she would be required to follow the holy days and fasts of the Byzantine rite. Now it is my understanding that some of these holy days and fasts differ from the Latin rite.
Our community however has no Byz. Catholic church. I don’t even know where the nearest one would be. (we used to have a Ukrainian Cath. church 1/2 hour from here and a Byz. Cath. church 25 minutes away) both have closed in the last few years. Ultimately her only practical option would be a Latin rite church.
If she worshipped weekly in the Latin church and followed the liturgical calander of Holy days and such of the Latin church is this permitted or is this incorrect of her to do since officially she would be Byz. Catholic?
 
You can join any church in the Catholic Church (Byz, Melk, etc. I don’t know how to spell their offical names sorry) and still be Catholic.
 
I should have been more clear…the Ukrainian and Bysintine churches were the only 2 “Eastern Catholic” churches within a reasonable (yet not really closeby radious). Thats it no other Eastern Catholic churches any where even remotly close. so her only option would be to practice in the Latin form. But she would still technically be “Bysintine Catholic” (unless she formally changed rites to Latin which in this instance we are saying she is of Byz rite)
 
I believe it is usual for an Eastern Orthodox Christian to join the Catholic rite which is the closest counterpart to the particular Orthodox Church. ( I believe there may have been a post recently in the Ask an Apologist forum.)

But even if someone is a member of an Eastern rite, they are still able to attend Mass at a Latin parish. That would seem to be the thing to do when no Eastern Church is convenient. I am not sure if Eastern Catholics follow the same calendar as western Christians or eastern Christians but I’m sure any eastern Catholic priest would know what to do about any discrepancies.
 
This is an interesting scenario. I have met 2 people in real life who became Orthodox because they could not find an Eastern or Oriental Catholic Church where they lived.

If there are no Eastern or Oriental Catholic Churches in a geographical area, can an Eastern or Oriental Catholic fulfill their Sunday “obligation” at an Orthodox Church licitly? I know this has been discussed in the past, and Eastern and Oriental Catholics seem to generally feel quite OK about fulfilling their Sunday “obligation” at an Orthodox Church.

Personally, I go to Latin Mass maybe once every two months (perhaps more) depending on my locale (my work forces me to travel a lot), and I really don’t mind going to a Latin Catholic Church, even if there is an Oriental Orthodox Church in the area (though if I am at a locale for more than 2 weeks where there is no Oriental Catholic Church, I would alternate between the Latin and the OO Church).

But I do understand that there are people who are really and sincerely fed spiritually in a more satisfying way in the Eastern or Oriental Tradition. It does not seem feasible for someone with a heart to the Eastern or Oriental Traditions to keep going to Latin Mass just because that is the only thing available to them.

Blessings,
Marduk
 
Luvs2Learn said:
If she worshipped weekly in the Latin church and followed the liturgical calander of Holy days and such of the Latin church is this permitted or is this incorrect of her to do since officially she would be Byz. Catholic?
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I believe she would have to follow the Byzantine calendar of Holy Days, but she could do this in a Latin church.
 
Luvs2Learn said:
yes, but how would she do this?
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My thought is that she would fulfill her obligations by being at the Mass in the Latin church on the prescribed days. I’m not sure where differences occur between the two calendars, but I would think a number of the Holy days of obligation for the Byzantines would also be celebrated in the Latin Church, although perhaps not as days of obligation.
 
the biggest difference is the fasts: 4 instead of two, at least two days of abstinence per week during fasts, not one.

One differing day of obligation, Jan 6 instead of Jan 1.
 
I suggest this—

Don’t convert from Orthodoxy.

Just go.

The schism can’t endure if the faithful don’t support it!

I’ll be posting more about this later.
 
bpbasilphx said:
I suggest this—

Don’t convert from Orthodoxy.

Just go.

The schism can’t endure if the faithful don’t support it!

I’ll be posting more about this later.
Click to expand...
That’s fine for the future, but what about the here and now? Union with the Pope is important! Nothing is worth leaving that union, nor is anything worth staying away from it.

I myself am a Latin Rite Catholic, with a preference for the EF; I attend a Russian Catholic Divine Liturgy on occasion, but it’s not my spiritual home. And so, to put myself in an analogous situation as the one described in this thread, if I lived in a town with a choice between an Eastern Catholic Divine Liturgy and a Latin Mass offered by a CMRI priest, I would be at that DL every Sunday. Even though the Latin Mass is my spiritual tradition, I would never even consider attending one presided over by a priest who rejects the Pope.
 
bpbasilphx said:
I suggest this—

Don’t convert from Orthodoxy.

Just go.

The schism can’t endure if the faithful don’t support it!

I’ll be posting more about this later.
Click to expand...
Looking forward to hearing about this 👍
 
Luvs2Learn said:
My friend who is Eastern Orthodox asked me a qustion w/ regards to converting to Catholiscm… Since she is Eastern Orthodox if she converted she would automatcally become “Byzintine Catholic”. As a Byzintine Catholic she would be required to follow the holy days and fasts of the Byzantine rite. Now it is my understanding that some of these holy days and fasts differ from the Latin rite.
Our community however has no Byz. Catholic church. I don’t even know where the nearest one would be. (we used to have a Ukrainian Cath. church 1/2 hour from here and a Byz. Cath. church 25 minutes away) both have closed in the last few years. Ultimately her only practical option would be a Latin rite church.
If she worshipped weekly in the Latin church and followed the liturgical calander of Holy days and such of the Latin church is this permitted or is this incorrect of her to do since officially she would be Byz. Catholic?
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Why would she want to convert to Roman Catholicism anyway?. Curious!. Tell her to read up on the Austrian Church, then decide if she wants to become Roman Catholic or stay Orthodox. Orthodox are “Catholics” to!. Valid sacraments and orders!.
 
JuanCarlos said:
That’s fine for the future, but what about the here and now? Union with the Pope is important! Nothing is worth leaving that union, nor is anything worth staying away from it.

I myself am a Latin Rite Catholic, with a preference for the EF; I attend a Russian Catholic Divine Liturgy on occasion, but it’s not my spiritual home. And so, to put myself in an analogous situation as the one described in this thread, if I lived in a town with a choice between an Eastern Catholic Divine Liturgy and a Latin Mass offered by a CMRI priest, I would be at that DL every Sunday. Even though the Latin Mass is my spiritual tradition, I would never even consider attending one presided over by a priest who rejects the Pope.
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Tell that to the Austrians!.
 
Luvs2Learn said:
My friend who is Eastern Orthodox asked me a qustion w/ regards to converting to Catholiscm… Since she is Eastern Orthodox if she converted she would automatcally become “Byzintine Catholic”. As a Byzintine Catholic she would be required to follow the holy days and fasts of the Byzantine rite. Now it is my understanding that some of these holy days and fasts differ from the Latin rite.
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I’m sorry there haven’t been more Orthodox and ECC folks posting responses to this, and I’m one more who is neither one. I suggest that while it is my understanding that one would follow the practices, as much as possible, of one’s church sui juris, I have also found that the Orthodox/Eastern sacramental liturgical view is different from the Roman/Latin view. The obligation/required idea in the West is not the same in the East. For this, and other reasons, I hope your friend can find an Eastern Catholic priest or bi-ritual priest to work with as a spiritual father, which in any case is always the recommendation for, for example, fasting practices.

Yes, both fasting and feast days are different from the Roman Catholic. Currently is a fast period, Sts Peter and Paul Fast, for example, Here’s one resource to look at for some basic information about the calendar . I see that calendar is on the Gregorian calendar. The Byzantine Church I go to follows the Julian Calendar, so there are variations.

I suggest watching Fasting in the Byzantine Church Year with Fr. Moses of Holy Resurrection Monastery . All of Catherine Alexander’s interviews of the HRM monks on YourWordFromTheWise are excellent.
Our community however has no Byz. Catholic church. I don’t even know where the nearest one would be. (we used to have a Ukrainian Cath. church 1/2 hour from here and a Byz. Cath. church 25 minutes away) both have closed in the last few years.
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How very sad that is to hear of those two ECCs closing. The Second Vatican Council and Pope John Paul II of blessed memory, as well as our present Holy Father, all have strongly emphasized the importance of preserving and cherishing our Eastern Catholic Churches. It takes me an hour to travel to the Byzantine Catholic Church I go to. It is a very tiny parish. They rarely have Vespers the evening before a feast day (for example the Nativity of St. John the Baptist this coming week). So, then I often go for the Vespers to a Russian Orthodox parish, also quite small, which is very welcoming. I feel very fortunate to have that option.
Ultimately her only practical option would be a Latin rite church.
If she worshipped weekly in the Latin church and followed the liturgical calander of Holy days and such of the Latin church is this permitted or is this incorrect of her to do since officially she would be Byz. Catholic?
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It’s very sad to have only that option. I hope your friend can find a spiritual father from an appropriate Eastern Catholic Church to counsel her.

Hopefully, some other folks with experiences similar to your friend will post suggestions. She may also find the byzcath.org forum helpful, given her isolation where she lives. Thank you for your interest in helping her. I will pray for her, and for the others people who were apparently left without their own church when those two churches closed.

-Marylouise
 
mlouise007 said:
I’m sorry there haven’t been more Orthodox and ECC folks posting responses to this,
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I do hope brother Aramis gives more (name removed by moderator)ut. IIRC, when this topic was discussed many months back (I forget the name of the thread), he had some really good (name removed by moderator)ut on the matter.

Blessings.
 
bpbasilphx said:
I suggest this—

Don’t convert from Orthodoxy.

Just go.

The schism can’t endure if the faithful don’t support it!

I’ll be posting more about this later.
Click to expand...
I would also greatly appreciate your views on the matter. It seems to me that the Antiochene role as “peacekeepers” is a great heritage in that Church. IIRC, after the Great Schism, and even during the establishment of the Latin Kindgom, the See of Antioch was always more open to the possibility of reunion than the rest of the Eastern Byzantine Church.

On the OO side of the matter, the Syriac Orthodox seems to have the closest possible chance of reunion with the CC, given that the basic ecclesiology is more similar between the two Churches. There is even OFFICIAL limited intercommunion between the Syriac Orthodox and the Catholic Churches.

Blessings,
Marduk
 
mardukm said:
I would also greatly appreciate your views on the matter. It seems to me that the Antiochene role as “peacekeepers” is a great heritage in that Church. IIRC, after the Great Schism, and even during the establishment of the Latin Kindgom, the See of Antioch was always more open to the possibility of reunion than the rest of the Eastern Byzantine Church.

On the OO side of the matter, the Syriac Orthodox seems to have the closest possible chance of reunion with the CC, given that the basic ecclesiology is more similar between the two Churches. There is even OFFICIAL limited intercommunion between the Syriac Orthodox and the Catholic Churches.

Blessings,
Marduk
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Also Official intercommunion between the Assyrian Church of the East and the Chaldean Catholic Church (ignoring their recent move towards open communion).

Really, if you are in the US, a byzantine without access to a byzantine parish can simply write their bishop and request a dispensation to follow the Roman praxis, or, alternatively, request canonical transfer to the Latin Church.

And Russian Church Catholics are generally under the omophor of their local Roman bishop anyway, and can request that dispensation from the local Roman Ordinary.
 
Dear brother Aramis,
Aramis said:
Also Official intercommunion between the Assyrian Church of the East and the Chaldean Catholic Church (ignoring their recent move towards open communion).

Really, if you are in the US, a byzantine without access to a byzantine parish can simply write their bishop and request a dispensation to follow the Roman praxis, or, alternatively, request canonical transfer to the Latin Church.

And Russian Church Catholics are generally under the omophor of their local Roman bishop anyway, and can request that dispensation from the local Roman Ordinary.
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Thank you for the comments.

I just remembered my question from the original thread (though I still don’t remember the name of that thread). I asked, “Can’t an EO or OO who translates to the Catholic Church enroll in a Latin Church AS an EC or OC?”

I think it was you who answered that “enrollment” is different from “parish membership.”

As a follow-up, I asked if such a distinction is recognized on parish membership forms. I don’t recall a response to that question (not that I was expecting you in particular to answer that specific question).

I also recall that the general topic in that original thread was about the apparent decline in EC/OC membership statistics. It was opined that the decline probably has most to do with EC/OC being “forced” to attend Latin Churches where there are no EC or OC churches in the area.

Blessings
 
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