Orthodox have it better... (I think)

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031064

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this post is meant to be provocative and debateable and I highly encourage you to try and prove me wrong (I’d love to be wrong).

Lately I’ve been thinking a lot about the EO Church. I came really close to want to join actually but the papacy holds me back.

I look at the EO and think to myself "nicer vestments, way nicer churches, the priests ALWAYS were their clerical garb (unlike ours who wear ‘street clothes’), nicer music, nicer symbolism, more ‘heavenly’ liturgy etc.

Here are some pictures to prove it:
http://www.kerygma.org/lee/liturgy_y.jpg
http://imagecache2.allposters.com/i...urch-with-Ocean-Beyond-Oia-Greece-Posters.jpg
Catholic (even eastern Catholic) monestaries pale in comparison to the beauty and location of most Orthodox monestaries:

Mount Athos
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
St. Catherines, Sinai:
http://www.teeth.com.pk/blog/wp-content/uploads/2006/10/St Catherines Monastry in Sinai.jpg

Need I mention the fact that the EO has almost all of the great holy sites like the Holy Sepulchre, tomb of Mary, Nativity etc.

The only thing is I have some theological love of the Latin Catholic church- the filoque for example. I also like the use of uleavened bread as Jesus used. can someone pls. try and convince me that these ‘externals’ are actually better in the Latin Catholic Church, or at least in the Eastern catholic Church.

Thanks!
 
Oh, I’d also like to mention their very venerable tradition of having a lot of processions- like that entrwined with the Blessing of the Waters. Does the Latin Catholic church have anything comparible?
 
031064 said:
Oh, I’d also like to mention their very venerable tradition of having a lot of processions- like that entrwined with the Blessing of the Waters. Does the Latin Catholic church have anything comparible?
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I must say to you that I do not think you have been fair. I am not attacking you but I think that you have taken the best of the EO and taken the worst of the LC and compared them. Very often, EO priest do go around in street clothes. Many Latin priest wear their Clarical garb for life.

The Holy Sepulcure is OUR church. We SHARE it with them.

You are Latin Rite and you should learn to love the rich hairitiage that you have in the Latin RIte. If you really want to go over to the Greek Rite or Slavonic Rite then you should go Eastern Catholic. Leaving the ONE HOLY CATHOLIC AND APOSTALIC CHURCH should not be an opion on the table.

Yet, we must ask, why stop with the Greeks or Slavs. Why not consider the Maronites, Syriacs, Chaldeans, Malankarans, Malabar, Coptics, Ethiopians or Armenians. For a Latin Rite person going Eastern, you probably will want to go Armenian or Maronite depending on which langauge you get learn faster.

You are doing a “grass is greener” thing here. Certainly many of them look to us and think that we have it better. Our Patriarchs don’t fight the way theirs do.

You can save yourself a big headache and just learn Latin and love the Latin rite and learn about the Latin Rite. You should learn about the other rites too but probably this will cause you to love the Latin rite even more. It did for me.
 
031064 said:
The only thing is I have some theological love of the Latin Catholic church- the filoque for example…

Thanks!
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If that’s what you think, bloom where you are planted.

You would not fit in with Holy orthodoxy.

I suggest that you get as involved as possible in your church and try to be a positive influence in regard to those externals you seem to value.

Michael
 
I would greatly appreciate if someone could post some pictures of places with comparable beauty in Latin catholocism- I just can;t find them. how did the Orthodox manage to get all the best sites, etc? It boggles my mind- even the lowest of there holy places are beautiful.

I drove by a catholic church the other day and honestly I predicted it was catholic but prayed to God that it wasn’t. It looked like this: http://strattonhouse.com/images/catholic_church_new_lg.jpg

we ar enot glorifying God in a meterial sense as well as a spiritual sense- to me this is important. Can anyone provide a picture of an EO Church this ugly- I doubt it (almost all of there Churches are testaments to the glory of God).
 
Well I think if you are purely going for grandeur of buildings as a testamant to the truth then I don’t see how God can be glorified any higher than that of St. Peter’s.

🤷
 
I have seen many temples of all sorts, some gloriously appointed and some very simple basic structures.

It is not what you see that is important, but what you do not see, going on at the altar of God. We must remember that a lot of these places of worship are little more than missions, and often important non-liturgical work (charities and such) are taking place too.

Yes, I can for the most part agree with your assessment in a general way, worship should be beautiful and Orthodox continually stive for that. In fact, the Philokalia, that great collection of early holy writings, means “love of the beautiful” and the beauty in this sense is associated with good.

I cannot think of anything more beautiful than this…

ewtn.com/series/2005/Series_Church_and_Poor.jpg

Catholic Father HoLung and the Missionaries of the Poor

Here is an Orthodox mission in Haiti…

orthodoxhaiti.org/images/Nativity-early-N-view.jpg

That’s beautiful too. It has the beauty of Christs’ promise of the Kingdom and the Good News.
 
Hesychios said:
If that’s what you think, bloom where you are planted.

You would not fit in with Holy orthodoxy.

I suggest that you get as involved as possible in your church and try to be a positive influence in regard to those externals you seem to value.

Michael
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I agree with Michael. Find a parish that offers a TLM, transfer to an Eastern Catholic Church or better yet fight to bring beauty to your own parish.

Yours in Christ
Joe
 
I don’t understand how prettier buildings or prettier clothing somehow trump the primacy of Peter…
 
I just left 12 years of Eastern Orthodoxy to become Catholic. Put away the travel brochures and experience local boots-on-the-ground Orthodoxy before you think about making a change.

There are wonderful people in Orthodoxy but one size does not fit all.
 
Oh, and by the way - that very first photo that you posted was actually from a Melkite Church. The Melkites are in full communion with Rome and are not Eastern Orthodox. 🙂
 
a priori,

Just as a sidebar- since the EO have all the nice mediteranean monestaries can I travel there one day when I’m older than 20 and stay in the monestary or would they not allow this of a catholic? wouldthey try to convert me the whole time? will we maybe be one Church by that time?

I think my optimal situation would be if Orthodoxy returned to Catholocism- this would lead to an explosion of beauty in the Catholic church (I beleive) because the beauty of the EO churches is just infectious.

How come no one has provided any pictures of beautiful Catholic monestaries yet? Please feel free to post these along with other beautiful catholic sites.
 
031064 said:
I look at the EO and think to myself "nicer vestments, way nicer churches, the priests ALWAYS were their clerical garb (unlike ours who wear ‘street clothes’), nicer music, nicer symbolism, more ‘heavenly’ liturgy etc.

Here are some pictures to prove it:
http://www.kerygma.org/lee/liturgy_y.jpg
Click to expand...
Actually, that picture is of Byzantine CATHOLIC priests. So you can’t really use it as evidence that the Orthodox have it better :o

The Extraordinary Form of the Roman Rite is every bit as beautiful as the Byzantine Rite, and we have some of the most beautiful churches in the world.

I wish i could share all of the pictures I have collected; alas, this forum only allows online pictures. I’ll continue looking.

Why don’t you search for some info on some of my favorite churches. I’d recommend Flickr (Asterisks mark the ones I have personally been to, and can attest to the marvelous beauty of)


  1. *]**The National Basilica of the Shrine of the Immaulate Conception, here in Washington, D.C. where i live. It is the largest Catholic church in the western hemisphere, and the most beautiful I have ever seen
    *]**The Cathedral at Koln (Cologne), a soaring Gothic-style cathedral with the largest facade, i believe, of any cathedral
    *]Sagrada Familia in Portugal, perhaps the most oddly-designed church ever, which will hopefully one day be finished…
    *]The Cathedral of St. Cecile in Albi, France. Absolutely beautiful murals, an old rood screen, all inside what looks like a medeival fort
    *]**Mont Saint Michel in Normandy, France, a huge Church and town built upon a tidal island
    *]The “Duomo,” the Cathedral of Milan, and the capital of the Ambrosian Rite; absolutely beautiful Gothic interior
    *]**Sacre Coeur (Sacred Heart) Basilica in Paris, built in honor of Catholics who were killed during the French Revolution’s secular madness
    *]And many more, of course all of the basilicas of Rome, including **St. Peter’s, and the **Sistine Chapel, etc…
 
The Old Cathedral in Salamanca, Spain.

I’ve attended Mass here.

upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/04/Cathedral_of_Salamanca_Romanesque.jpg/750px-Cathedral_of_Salamanca_Romanesque.jpg

The Basilica of Our Lady of Fatima in Portugal.

I’ve also attended Mass here.

http://www.sacredsites.com/europe/portugal/images/church-with-arches-500.jpg

Our Lady of Victory Basilica in Buffalo, New York.

I’ve also attended Mass here.

http://www.ourladyofvictory.org/Basilica/basbasilica.jpeg

~~ the phoenix
 
031064 said:
I would greatly appreciate if someone could post some pictures of places with comparable beauty in Latin catholocism- I just can;t find them. how did the Orthodox manage to get all the best sites, etc? It boggles my mind- even the lowest of there holy places are beautiful.

I drove by a catholic church the other day and honestly I predicted it was catholic but prayed to God that it wasn’t. It looked like this: strattonhouse.com/images/catholic_church_new_lg.jpg

we ar enot glorifying God in a meterial sense as well as a spiritual sense- to me this is important. Can anyone provide a picture of an EO Church this ugly- I doubt it (almost all of there Churches are testaments to the glory of God).
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First of all. This should NOT be the criteria that one chooses a Eastern Orthodoxy. I take issue with that. I am very attracted to the traditions and history of the Orhtodox and thus consider myself a friend, even if they do not. Not my problem if they don’t accept me. It was the discovery of the Eastern Orhtodox Church that brought me back home to Catholicism.

I’ve seen many beautiful Catholic Church that come close to challenging any Orhtodox church. I was a seminary in Louisiana that had beautiful meaningful icons painted everywhere. Much of it still exists… I recommend that if you ever get a chance to visit St. Joseph Seminary College…do it. It’s a Benedictine Monestary and Seminary.

Further the Cathedral in Lafayette is very beutiful with the most beutiful stained glass windos I’ve ever seen. Many of the old Catherdrals are unbelievable. Most need updating. But still reveal the once cherished nature of glorifying God in the strucutres and art. The same type of symbology is still present…you just need to learn what it is. We have many traditions that the Latin Catholic felt were old fashioned and they wanted to be like our separated brothers and sisters. Many priests and religious kicked the habit and left in hords…why…heresy…why…agenda driven heretics trying to push their own agenda…Is it new…no…it’s always been like this after a Coucil. It will and is getting better. I’m back home…That’s a major thing…many like me are following because the Church is reaching out to us…now we just need to teach the Catholics the teachings of the church and why we believe what we believe. Apologetics is growing by leaps and bounds.

The photo’s I have don’t justify the beauty of these structures… I need a bettere camera… but you can see some of it online… What about the National Shrine in Washington DC? What about the Vatican?..much more.

And as far as seeing some really needy Orhtodox churches… I’ve seen plently of needy ones…pas by one every day on my way to work. Our Byzantine Catholic church in the same city looks better on the outside. But I haven’t seen either on the inside other that picitures and I can’t tell from that.

That’s not how you pick a church. Theology and so far you have sided with Rome… You are Latin Catholic…be a good one.
 
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