Orthodox have it better... (I think)

[Peter_J]

You are doing a “grass is greener” thing here. Certainly many of them look to us and think that we have it better. Our Patriarchs don’t fight the way theirs do.

Which is really a pity: the Patriarch of Constantinople knows karate, jiu-jitsu, and kickboxing. Pope Benedict just knows kung fu. (Or so I’m told.)

 

[belgianwaffles9]

I assume you’re joking, right? Can anyone say “Crusades”?

Catholics and Orthodox are both capable of incredibly stupid things. Simply because some clerics are bad doesn’t mean the Church is “fallen.” I thought a Catholic would understand this.

Yours in Christ
Joe

Some Catholics do… But we also understand that The crusades are an interesting topic. There were many different ones, for different purposes. so always beware of making generalizations about plural crusades. And also remember, the sack of constantinople was done by a rag-tag band of peasants who left before the official crusade was even set to begin. And it was condemned by the pope. I believe they may have been ex-communicated, too, but i do not know for sure.

There is a big difference between using a “common greeting of the time” in 1933 (which is when these pics are from), before Nazis have committed any atrocities vs. blessing someone going into murder (including a murder weapon).

If you know your history well, you will also know that Hitler actually had quite a beef with Catholic church and wanted it “replaced” with his own kind of Christianity.

No one can prevent sin (except God perhaps by taking our free will from us), but the big difference is what happens after the sin has been committed. True Christ’s church would (and it has) condemn any wrong doing from both theological and practical points, and that has not happened in Eastern Orthodox Church.

There were plenty of Catholics on both sides. A biography of Pope Benedic i am reading details this. But yes, Hitler did view the Church, as an institution, as an enemy. But he played church officials just like he played everyone else.

Check out this Catholic Church.

shrinechurch.com/tour/view.asp?tour=yes&view=35a

shrinechurch.com/tour/view.asp?tour=yes&view=19

It was recently featured on the New Liturgical Movement

 

[Peter_J]

There’s a short Time article called Ugly Churches.

 

[bkovacs]

this post is meant to be provocative and debateable and I highly encourage you to try and prove me wrong (I’d love to be wrong).

Lately I’ve been thinking a lot about the EO Church. I came really close to want to join actually but the papacy holds me back.

I look at the EO and think to myself "nicer vestments, way nicer churches, the priests ALWAYS were their clerical garb (unlike ours who wear ‘street clothes’), nicer music, nicer symbolism, more ‘heavenly’ liturgy etc.

Here are some pictures to prove it:
http://www.kerygma.org/lee/liturgy_y.jpg
http://imagecache2.allposters.com/i...urch-with-Ocean-Beyond-Oia-Greece-Posters.jpg
Catholic (even eastern Catholic) monestaries pale in comparison to the beauty and location of most Orthodox monestaries:

Mount Athos
http://www.travel-to-halkidiki.com/gallery_images/39.jpg
St. Catherines, Sinai:
http://www.teeth.com.pk/blog/wp-content/uploads/2006/10/St Catherines Monastry in Sinai.jpg

Need I mention the fact that the EO has almost all of the great holy sites like the Holy Sepulchre, tomb of Mary, Nativity etc.

The only thing is I have some theological love of the Latin Catholic church- the filoque for example. I also like the use of uleavened bread as Jesus used. can someone pls. try and convince me that these ‘externals’ are actually better in the Latin Catholic Church, or at least in the Eastern catholic Church.

Thanks!

Keep in mind that allot of what the EO have is do to donations from the laity and their faith. Pretty rich laity some times. Who are very generous!. If rich Catholics could be so generous in this country we could have beautiful looking Gothic style Churches. But it all boils down to money. If you look at the beautiful Cathedrals and Churches from the middle ages, it all boiled down to money and faith. The Church was the center of every town or village. Not so in todays secular society. Hopefully it will change, but it will probably will not be for generations to come. Especially when you have parishes closing their doors.

 

[Peter_J]

Or perhaps you recognize that Orthodox are truly Catholic in every sense.

Good for you.

I haven’t.

But don’t worry, it’s on my to-do list.

First I just have to accept Branch Theory.

 

[tomarin]

And currently I’m on vacation in Honolulu, Hawaii (Waikiki) and the church here (St. Augustine’s) is gorgeous! Right on the beach!

I know the exact church you’re talking about. I visited it in May when I was in Waikiki. It’s a pretty one.

 

[Hesychios]

Keep in mind that allot of what the EO have is do to donations from the laity and their faith. Pretty rich laity some times. Who are very generous!. If rich Catholics could be so generous in this country we could have beautiful looking Gothic style Churches. But it all boils down to money. If you look at the beautiful Cathedrals and Churches from the middle ages, it all boiled down to money and faith. The Church was the center of every town or village. Not so in todays secular society. Hopefully it will change, but it will probably will not be for generations to come. Especially when you have parishes closing their doors.

I don’t know about that. Much of the greatest financial contributions in east and west in times past were the result of powerful people, who also often tended to be powerful sinners.

Giving to the church is expiatory. From whom much is given much is expected. One hopes that good works will counterbalance some of the less savory history of a persons life.

But I will say this: eastern Christian parishes (Catholic and Orthodox) are typically much smaller in North America than Latin parishes and they require a higher level of commitment.

When I think back on my Latin Catholic days, I feel like I was an absolute piker. And perhaps I was, even compared to my fellow parishioners…I just don’t know.

But when I became a Byzantine Catholic my personal contributions increased fourfold at Sunday Liturgy, and I volunteered a whole lot more besides. The needs of the parish were very great and our numbers were not that great. And yes, decoration of the temple was an important part of that equation.

Michael, that sinner

 

[cathopologist]

Prayer Warrior, like you, i absolutely love the magnificence and beauty of Orthodox churches. You’re lucky that you can easily find Orthodox churches of various nationality in America. I live in Singapore and there is only one established but the oldest (Oriental) Orthodox church in Singapore - Church of St Gregory the Illuminated (Armenian Apostolic) I’ve also been to the Syrian Orthodox Cathedral in Singapore but none can be compared to the ones i have seen in photos in other countries. Churches (including Roman Catholic churches) here are relatively simple looking without much grandeur. The only one Catholic Church (in terms of magnificence and grandiose) is now a bar and restaurant, visited by cheap women and expatriates for a good night out. How sad!

Aside from my own complaints, i think it will be wiser if you stuck to the “boring ole Latin Church”. You said it yourself, the papacy holds you back - plus the fact that Catholic theology has remained undefeated to this day. Authority and strong understanding of the Scriptures are the keywords here. External beauty is secondary. Being in a grandiose church won’t help you spiritually. Sometimes i also wish they they would build beautiful Catholic churches here, but i will not forsake my faith simply because another (Orthodox) church looks better. If an Orthodox member would ask you some day, “Why did you decide to abandon the Catholic Church to join ours?” Won’t you feel silly for explaining the real reasons? Think twice.

 

[Pravoslavac]

Pravoslavac,

Actually, St. Peter’s was “assigned” or “dedicated” to THE LATIN patriarch of Constantinople–not the EO one. The Latin patriarch was installed after the fourth crusade as a rival or replacement for the EO patriarch, but was ejected from Constantinople in 1261, and “reigned” hundreds of miles away at St. Peter’s.

St. Peter’s a Latin church, long under the guidance of a Latin patriarch. The thought that one could claim St. Peter’s for Eastern Orthodoxy is (honestly) ridiculous. You keep Hagia Sofia, we’ll keep St. Peters, lol. Thank you. (Though technically, Hagia Sofia is a legacy of the undivided Church.)

P.S. St. Peter’s dome was modeled on the Pantheon’s dome (an ancient Roman temple, later converted into a Latin church)–not an “EO style.”

PLEASE READ POST #48.

Always jumpin’ aren’t we?

 

[Sam_777]

I don’t know to which Christian denomination this Church belongs, but its the most beautiful one I have seen so far.

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

 

[Peter_J]

I don’t know to which Christian denomination this Church belongs, but its the most beautiful one I have seen so far.

http://inquiescor.net/media/users/kenlyn/hallgrimskirkja.jpg

Interesting, but doesn’t appeal to me all that much because I’m not a big fan of organ music.

 

[prodromos]

Easter Orthodox Church lost some of its charm to me once I saw their priests and bishops (equivalent of) blessing tanks and volunteer soldiers in Bosnia before going on mass murder (ethnic cleansing of Muslems) rampage, and openly inciting war.

My dear fellow, you have fallen for a typical piece of anti Serbian propaganda. I don’t know whether you are referring to the Srebrenica video or the one which showed a small group of soldiers being blessed by a priest followed by an act of attrocity by another group of soldiers totally unrelated to the ones blessed by the priest. With simple editing it is easy to convince the uncritical viewer that the one event followed the other and the soldiers were the same. Nothing could be further from the truth however. The mere fact that there was a time stamp on the opening segment and none on the latter should make it obvious that they were two different footages cobbled together.

I recommend you read the article linked below, written in June 2005 so that you will be able to repent of your ignorance. I was living in Greece at the time of these events and got to see both the reports coming from straight over the border, and the version of events presented to the West by CNN and other Western media outlets. It was sickening to see how the people of the USA, the UK and Australia were presented not with facts, but pure propaganda, presenting the Christian Serbs as evil aggressors while the Bosnian Muslims were their “almost” innocent victims.
Read the article, please, and perpetuate this falsehood no more.
Serbs, Lies, and Videotape

Here is another of interest
Labeling the Serbs as Nazis - The Role of Ruder Finn, a US-Public Relation Firm

Catholic Church on the other hand preached forgiveness in the same context (bringing some faithful to anger, since forgiveness seems like a silly idea in the madness of the war).

It seems you, like many Catholics, are unaware of the atrocities committed by Catholic clergy in Croatia during WW2. Do a search with the terms “Pavelic”, “ustase” or “ustashi”, “Archbishop Stepinac”, “franciscan” but be prepared to do a lot of weeping.

It seems to me Eastern Orthodox church has lost some of the spirit of the original Christ’s teching, making it basically a fallen church.

Since your view is based (unwittingly) on false information, it is not a valid conclusion.

John

 

[Mickey]

It seems you, like many Catholics, are unaware of the atrocities committed by Catholic clergy in Croatia during WW2. Do a search with the terms “Pavelic”, “ustase” or “ustashi”, “Archbishop Stepinac”, “franciscan” but be prepared to do a lot of weeping.

Yes. It is a very sad and bloody period of history. Let us pray for the countless Serbian Orthodox martyrs.

 

[denver_faithful]

This is a beautiful catholic bassillica.

I hope you enjoy!

thebasilica.org/photogallery/virtualtour.asp

 

[Ghoti]

This is a beautiful catholic bassillica.

I hope you enjoy!

thebasilica.org/photogallery/virtualtour.asp

Wow…

Oops! Sorry for the noise… that was my jaw bouncing off the linoleum…

 

[Molly2000z]

I don’t understand how prettier buildings or prettier clothing somehow trump the primacy of Peter…

Meither.

I have to say that one of the most beautiful churches that I’ve been in was the National Cathedral, but I still worship at the local Catholic Church.

 

[031064]

that is a really beautiful church.

 

[belgianwaffles9]

Meither.

I have to say that one of the most beautiful churches that I’ve been in was the National Cathedral, but I still worship at the local Catholic Church.

hope you went across town to the National Shrine!

 

[Cairisti]

Interesting, but doesn’t appeal to me all that much because I’m not a big fan of organ music.

That’s a church in Iceland. (saw it on the Travel Channel. G ) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hallgr%C3%ADmskirkja Personally, I prefer more traditional churches.

 

[Hesychios]

I don’t understand how prettier buildings or prettier clothing somehow trump the primacy of Peter…

Primacy does not Supremacy make.