Orthodox have it better... (I think)

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to the OP 🙂

I’m a convert from Eastern Orthodoxy to Catholicism. 😉
I think that there are always two ways of looking at these churches. One is from the perspective of fancy cathedrals/monasteries/pictures on the web… the other is from actually what it’s like in every day life.
There are indeed many beautiful Orthodox churches, there are also many plain ones, especially starting churches in the US…where you just have a simple building with icons inside of it. It really varies!! Same with Catholicism… you have your typical parish, and then you have St. Peters or Notre Dame. If you ever go to Rome, (and the rest of Italy), and France, you’ll see MANY gorgeous cathedrals, shrines, etc etc, and you probably wont want to leave lol 😛

Here are some pictures of beautiful Catholic churches.
notredameottawa.com/
This is Notre Dame in Ottawa, Canada.
The reason I’m including it is because it’s not in Europe, so you can see that there are beautiful Catholic churches all around the world. I’ve actually been here and it’s amazing.

Here’s a similar one, but in another city:
basiliquenddm.org/
(watch the whole intro)

then here’s a Carmelite monastery in a beautiful location, right by the sea! carmelitesistersbythesea.net/homepage.htm

not to mention all the hundreds of churches in Europe… just go to a local bookstore and look at a travel book for Italy or something. 🙂

i also want to tell you something.
i hope this doesn’t sound harsh, but look for truth, not aesthetic beauty. Seek God’s will first This was a choice I had to make over and over in my journey to Catholicism… just making sacrifices and leaving things behind just because God wanted me to. Eventually, I found that the Catholic Church is awesome just as it is. The prayers, the Mass, the devotions, the Saints, and especially Adoration…have changed my life. The Catholic Church has brought me closer to God than I ever was before.
Just focus on the Eucharist… this is the center of our faith… not the architecture or the music… when you’re at Mass, don’t worry too much about the externals, if they distract you, and focus on Jesus truly present before you!! And you will love Mass. 🙂
don’t get caught up in the things that don’t last.
The Church is full of treasures that endure to eternity.

God bless you
 
Monica4316 said:
but look for truth, not aesthetic beauty. Seek God’s will first This was a choice I had to make over and over in my journey to Catholicism.
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Yes. It was the choice I made in my journey from Catholicism to Holy Orthodoxy.
 
thanks so much- you have shown me some truly beautiful Catholic churches.
 
I tried to google up a church in Germany that I have visited several times… Its called the “Kirche im Wald”…its in Bavaria… it sits pretty much in the middle of nowhere…surrounded by farms. It is a beautiful Church…the inside is just astoundingly beautiful as it is all biblical paintings… I wish I had some of my pictures on CD so I could post them…

Another beautiful Cathedral is the Bamberg Cathedral… It is where Pope Clemens II is buried, and he is the only Pope buried north of the Alps… kulturpfad-franken.de/englisch/bamberg-dom/bamberg-dom.html

Wurzburg also has a beautiful Cathedral as well… dajon.picturepush.com/album/22823/809743/Germany/Wurzburg-Cathedral.html

Maybe you should plan a trip to Europe…and also stop by Rome and check out Saint Peter’s… 🙂
 
Saw this thread, and just had to post pictures of a cathedral I fell in love with. It’s the cathedral of Cologne, Germany. Pictures don’t do it justice. It’s so beautiful and breathtaking, and just… huge. You feel so insignificant next to it. It even had repairs being done to it when I went, and still, didn’t even come close to diminishing its beauty.

Exterior: pictures.wcunningham.com/germany2004files/DSC_4368s.jpg, upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fe/Cologne_Cathedral.jpg

Interior: ronsaari.com/stockImages/germany/CologneCathedralInterior.jpg
 
cool_plant said:
Saw this thread, and just had to post pictures of a cathedral I fell in love with. It’s the cathedral of Cologne, Germany. Pictures don’t do it justice. It’s so beautiful and breathtaking, and just… huge. You feel so insignificant next to it. It even had repairs being done to it when I went, and still, didn’t even come close to diminishing its beauty.

Exterior: pictures.wcunningham.com/germany2004files/DSC_4368s.jpg, upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fe/Cologne_Cathedral.jpg

Interior: ronsaari.com/stockImages/germany/CologneCathedralInterior.jpg
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I have to say i agree with you; when i lived in europe, i was absolutely BLOWN away by the Cologne cathedral. It is simply the most magnificent acheivement of gothic architecture. It is impossible to understand just how massive it is. And in this day and age of skyscrapers, it is so beautiful to see a Cathedral towering over a city.
 
Hesychios said:
If that’s what you think, bloom where you are planted.

You would not fit in with Holy orthodoxy.

I suggest that you get as involved as possible in your church and try to be a positive influence in regard to those externals you seem to value.

Michael
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That’s sense. Someone who for the reasons mentioned is not happy as a Latin Rite Catholic is vanishingly unlikely to be any happier as an Orthodox Christian. And surely Orthodoxy doesn’t need unhappy RCs anyway. (And please don’t send us your unhappy fellow-Orthodox - there are too many unhappy converts already, TY very much :))​

If externals are so vitally important, Jesus was certainly not worth following; nasty things, crosses were. All sweaty, bloody, stinking, soaked in blood, urine & faeces - which is a lot more untidy than any Roman-Rite priest in civvies.
 
Brothers wasn’t it the extrernals that converted the russian/ukrainians…or lets say beauty shall save the world or the people in it…😛
 
Yes, the beauty of Byzantine liturgy led to the baptism of Rus. I heard the other religion they were considering was Islam. I also find EO liturgy and many EO churches breathtakingly beautiful. Regarding beautiful RC (and even Protestant) churches - I will try to post some medieval fortress churches from my homeland of Transylvania (Romania), some are 500-800 y old.
 
However I would like to raise the issue of some of our Catholic prayers, devotions, and holy images/statues. As I learned about them, I got a distinct feeling that we Catholics have it better…it is almost as if our Lord and Blessed Mother are giving us the VIP treatment and leading us by holding our hands all the way. Take the prayers of Rosary and Divine Mercy Chaplet. The Rosary was endorsed many times by Our Lady. She appeared to St. Dominick cca 800 years ago telling that he will defeat heresies by praying the Rosary; at her appearances at Lourdes 1858 and Fatima 1917 she also placed a major emphasis on the Rosary. The Divine Mercy Chaplet was directly and supernaturally dictated by our Lord to St. Faustina (see her diary “Divine Mercy in my soul” written in the 1930s). If I would be Orthodox, I would miss out on these prayers. Add the devotions to Jesus’ Sacred Heart (revealed by our Lord to St Mary Margaret Alacoque in 17th c.); Mary’s Immaculate Heart (so highly endorsed at Fatima: “In the end, my Immaculate Heart will triumph; Russia will be converted”); the miraculous image of Our Lady of Guadalupe that she left in 1531 on St. Juan Diego (Aztec Indian)'s tilma (cactus fiber garment), still preserved after almost 500 y in the Mexico City Cathedral even though the whole tilma should have decomposed after 20-30 y; Our Lady’s statue - standing on the globe and showering graces from her hands as she appeared at Rue de Bac in 1830 to St Catherine Laboure and the medal (“miraculous medal”) with the famous prayer (O Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to Thee!) that were prepared exactly according to her instructions to St C.L.; Our Lord’s image of the Divine Mercy, with the red and pale rays issuing forth from his heart, inscribed “Jesus, I trust in You!” - this image was prepared according to our Lord’s direct instructions to St. Faustina, with the attached promise that WHOEVER WILL VENERATE THIS IMAGE, SHALL NOT PERISH - would I miss out on all these prayers, graces, goodness and beauty, if I would be Orthodox? Because it seems to me, that the majority of our Orthodox brethren are not aware (some are aware, but do not believe) and do not benefit from all these treasures that Our Lord and Our Lady entrusted to the Catholic Church.
 
031064 said:
this post is meant to be provocative and debateable and I highly encourage you to try and prove me wrong (I’d love to be wrong).

Lately I’ve been thinking a lot about the EO Church. I came really close to want to join actually but the papacy holds me back.

I look at the EO and think to myself "nicer vestments, way nicer churches, the priests ALWAYS were their clerical garb (unlike ours who wear ‘street clothes’), nicer music, nicer symbolism, more ‘heavenly’ liturgy etc.

Here are some pictures to prove it:
http://www.kerygma.org/lee/liturgy_y.jpg
http://imagecache2.allposters.com/i...urch-with-Ocean-Beyond-Oia-Greece-Posters.jpg
Catholic (even eastern Catholic) monestaries pale in comparison to the beauty and location of most Orthodox monestaries:

Mount Athos
http://www.travel-to-halkidiki.com/gallery_images/39.jpg
St. Catherines, Sinai:
http://www.teeth.com.pk/blog/wp-content/uploads/2006/10/St Catherines Monastry in Sinai.jpg

Need I mention the fact that the EO has almost all of the great holy sites like the Holy Sepulchre, tomb of Mary, Nativity etc.

The only thing is I have some theological love of the Latin Catholic church- the filoque for example. I also like the use of uleavened bread as Jesus used. can someone pls. try and convince me that these ‘externals’ are actually better in the Latin Catholic Church, or at least in the Eastern catholic Church.

Thanks!
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I have just come on this thread and seen the OP and before reading on I wish to make a comment.

I am surprised that the ceremonial aspects of the Orthodox is more important to you than the fact that Christ clearly teaches that all Churches must be in union with the Church led by Peter and his successors. It is clear from history that the Orthodox Churches broke from Rome more for political reasons than for anything else in 1054. Ceremonial can be a smoke screen between us and God and we should all be thankful for Vatican II which got rid of a lot of barnacles on the Barque of Peter. The Orthodox Churches are all national Churches - their growth is slow, shrinking or non-existent. The Apostolic Fathers stressed that to be cut off from Rome is to put your faith in jeopardy.🙂
 
Cinette said:
I have just come on this thread and seen the OP and before reading on I wish to make a comment.

I am surprised that the ceremonial aspects of the Orthodox is more important to you than the fact that Christ clearly teaches that all Churches must be in union with the Church led by Peter and his successors. It is clear from history that the Orthodox Churches broke from Rome more for political reasons than for anything else in 1054. Ceremonial can be a smoke screen between us and God and we should all be thankful for Vatican II which got rid of a lot of barnacles on the Barque of Peter. The Orthodox Churches are all national Churches - their growth is slow, shrinking or non-existent. The Apostolic Fathers stressed that to be cut off from Rome is to put your faith in jeopardy.🙂
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Wrong, wrong and wrong.

The See of Rome broke with Holy Orthodoxy. Too bad for Rome.

All legitimate bishops are successors of Peter, John and the other Apostles, the bishop of Rome has no monopoly on that. The east is chock full of Apostolic Sees.

You don’t think that the USCCB, the CBCEW and the CCCB are national churches? These are essentially a pale imitation of the ancient church structure of synods still in place in the Orthodox Communion! It is the original legitimate ecclesiology of the church. Having National Bishops Conferences, or Synods, is not a sign of disunity.

To be cut off from Truth is to put one’s faith in jeopardy.

Michael
 
Hesychios said:
Wrong, wrong and wrong.

The See of Rome broke with Holy Orthodoxy. Too bad for Rome.

All legitimate bishops are successors of Peter, John and the other Apostles, the bishop of Rome has no monopoly on that. The east is chock full of Apostolic Sees.

You don’t think that the USCCB, the CBCEW and the CCCB are national churches? These are essentially a pale imitation of the ancient church structure of synods still in place in the Orthodox Communion! It is the original legitimate ecclesiology of the church. Having National Bishops Conferences, or Synods, is not a sign of disunity.

To be cut off from Truth is to put one’s faith in jeopardy.

Michael
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It is a great pity that the Orthodox Church is separated from Rome.

Let me quote one of the Church Fathers - St Jerome for instance, in his letter to Pope Damasus, (374-379) “As I follow no leader save Christ so I communicate with none but your blessedness, that is with the Chair of Peter. for this I know is the rock on which the Church is built! This is the house where alone the pascal lamb can be rightly eaten. This is the Ark of Noah and he who is not found in it shall perish when the flood prevails.”

And how about St Augustine who says “One cannot have salvation except in the Catholic Church…”

St Cyril of Jerusalem (315-386) “Where the Church is there is the Catholic Church, for this is the holy name of Holy Church the Mother of us all.”

I pray for the day when we can be reunited because essentially we are brothers and sisters in the Lord:)
 
For Romans:

Peter was martyred before John, who lived the Longest. When Linus and Clement succeeded Him, was John, at least Theoretically, subject to them, since a Pope is supposedly Supreme in the church or not?
 
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