Orthodox marrying a Catholic

[howirenic]

I’m Orthodox, but there are very few Orthodox women my age in my town and I’m at the age when I’m trying to find someone.

The Catholic community here is a lot larger and I keep thinking to myself if I should extend myself to other groups for meeting both friends and perhaps even future spouses.

I must admit that I’m attracted to Catholic women and I’m very much against the idea of any form of contraception.

Should I consider extending myself a bit and meeting Catholic women? I don’t think I could convert to Catholicism, but surely if I were to find someone, there would be a way for an intermarriage to work.

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

Many marriages work, and many don’t.

What you must discern for yourself is what you, personally would be willing to let go of. Your wife could not receive Holy Communion at your church, nor you in hers. That may be difficult as children come along. As far as future children, how would you want to raise them and in what faith?

Being lonely is powerful though, if that is what you are feeling I have been there. Being single is not easy and it is hard when you are eager to meet someone and get on with your life to get worked up over concerns that are “maybes” decades down the road!

However, I assured you this is a big issue and something to prayerfully consider. God bless you on your journey.

This part is not completely accurate. While Orthodox churches normally do not permit Catholics to receive, many Catholic dioceses permit Orthodox to receive at Catholic parishes.

From my diocese:

Orthodox Christians
Churches in which the sacraments are considered valid and Catholic faith is presumed include the Orthodox churches, the Assyrian Church of the East, and the Polish National Catholic Church. Members of these churches may receive Eucharist, Reconciliation or Anointing of the Sick from Catholic ministers if they are in danger of death, (16) or when they freely request the sacraments and are properly disposed. (17) In addition, due consideration must be given and sensitivity shown by both the Catholic minister and the person requesting the sacrament to the discipline of these churches regarding sacramental sharing. (18) If there is a question about the laws of a specific church and if there is time, the person should be encouraged to speak with a member of the clergy or other person learned in the discipline of that church.
When all these conditions have been met, no special permission is needed when these Christians request to share in Holy Communion at a Catholic celebration of the Eucharist. (19)

My area has had a history of immigration from both Italy and Greece, and because culturally they are very similar, there tends to be many intermarriages between the two groups. I’m Italian American and have 2 cousins married to Greek Americans.

 

[Casilda]

I know four couples who are Orthodox/Catholic. In one, the spouse eventually converted to Orthodoxy. In the other three I see, an Orthodox who attends Divine Liturgy without her Catholic spouse or teenage daughter; an Orthodox sitting in a Catholic church with his wife who refuses to visit his parish; and another couple who compromised and are Eastern Catholic. There will always be tensions in a marriage, adding difference in faith practice is just adding to that problem.

You need to network, I know a few Orthodox families who would love their children to meet and marry Orthodox spouses.

 

[Trident_H]

I’d say that as long as you were willing to give as much as she you’d be in a good place. I mean how bad could it be if you guys just alternated churches each Sunday? I mean yeah, that is going to get complicated when kids come along so you’d better have an even number so that half can be Orthodox and half Catholic. Wait. Maybe I’ve gotta do a bit more thinking here before I offer advice. Sorry!

 

[powerofk]

I’d say that as long as you were willing to give as much as she you’d be in a good place. I mean how bad could it be if you guys just alternated churches each Sunday? I mean yeah, that is going to get complicated when kids come along so you’d better have an even number so that half can be Orthodox and half Catholic. Wait. Maybe I’ve gotta do a bit more thinking here before I offer advice. Sorry!

Right. I know the Catholic Church requests that in order for a Catholic to marry a non-Catholic, the Catholic must promise to raise the children Catholic. I’m not sure if the Orthodox have a similar requirement, but I assume that they probably do. Though, as both are fully apostolic churches (and consider each other “sister churches”), the requirements for Catholic/Orthodox marriages might be different. My suggestion would be to ask one of the apologists here regarding this issue.

 

[Kosta]

I’m Orthodox, but there are very few Orthodox women my age in my town and I’m at the age when I’m trying to find someone.

The Catholic community here is a lot larger and I keep thinking to myself if I should extend myself to other groups for meeting both friends and perhaps even future spouses.

I must admit that I’m attracted to Catholic women and I’m very much against the idea of any form of contraception.

Should I consider extending myself a bit and meeting Catholic women? I don’t think I could convert to Catholicism, but surely if I were to find someone, there would be a way for an intermarriage to work.

My Mom and I are Orthodox and my Dad is Catholic.

It’s hard, it really is. A lot of people think that because our Church and theirs is topically similar and they were both raised in an American setting that such an interfaith marriage would be easy, but it’s not. Baptizing your children is going to be a struggle.

Before you give up just yet, why not expand your reach outside of your town?

 

[Xantippe]

I’m Orthodox, but there are very few Orthodox women my age in my town and I’m at the age when I’m trying to find someone.

The Catholic community here is a lot larger and I keep thinking to myself if I should extend myself to other groups for meeting both friends and perhaps even future spouses.

I must admit that I’m attracted to Catholic women and I’m very much against the idea of any form of contraception.

Should I consider extending myself a bit and meeting Catholic women? I don’t think I could convert to Catholicism, but surely if I were to find someone, there would be a way for an intermarriage to work.

Your hypothetical Catholic wife can only be a Catholic mom to your hypothetical future children–she can’t be an Orthodox mom, because she’s not Orthodox.

Think about what you want for your hypothetical future children and think about whether it’s very likely that a Catholic woman can provide that for them.

Less dramatically, I’m an ethnically WASP Catholic convert woman with an ethnic cradle Catholic husband. I do not provide the “ethnic” component of our home life (such as it is). I am quite happy to go along with it, but I don’t drive it. My husband and his family have to provide that element of our family life.

If you marry a Catholic woman (even if she is friendly to and tolerant of Eastern traditions), providing an Orthodox home for yourself and your children will be on your shoulders.

Also, come to think of it, the various Orthodox fasting and dietary stuff is also a large obstacle to combining homes.

It is an interesting problem, because on a high doctrinal level, there’s not a great deal of difference. It’s in the day-to-day that I think you’d see major difficulty (unless both of you were very lax).

 

[1ke]

While Orthodox churches normally do not permit Catholics to receive, many Catholic dioceses permit Orthodox to receive at Catholic parishes.

While there is no impediment to the Orthodox receiving in the Catholic Church from the Catholic standpoint, the Orthodox do not permit it. In fact, it’s an excommunicable offense for their members. So, the statement that neither can receive in the other’s Church is accurate.

 

[1ke]

I can say that after dating an Orthodox man, who was a wonderful person, he and I decided we could not continue our relationship because I would not leave the Catholic Church for Orthodoxy (because I believe the Catholic Church to have the fullness of truth and the Pope to be the head of the universal Church) and he would not leave Orthodoxy because it was his family heritage (Greek) and he was too tied to the community (and his mother would have a heart attack).

So, we understood that with both of us firm in our own faith, both active in our Churches (both on our parish councils), and neither willing to compromise on the rearing of children, it was just a waste of time to date each other no matter how much we liked each other. We cut it off before it became too difficult to do so due to emotional attachment.

It was a wise decision on both our parts. Our friends thought we were a little nuts, but in the long run we knew we could not marry without resolving the future of our faith life and family life.

 

[nodito]

I mean how bad could it be if you guys just alternated churches each Sunday?

Catholics are required to attend Mass each and every Sunday. For a Catholic to know this and freely choose to miss Mass every other week just to maintain family harmony would be gravely wrong and mortally sinful.

OP, I sympathize with your dilemma. I married young but can easily see the struggle of my single friends who are trying to decide what they can compromise on in order to find a suitable spouse. I truly recommend that religion not be something that you compromise on. Politics, hobbies, looks, profession, location, habits; these are all things that affect a marriage, but none of them is so central to the sacrament as a shared religion, which should ideally be the foundation of a marriage before God.

 

[1ke]

I’d say that as long as you were willing to give as much as she you’d be in a good place. I mean how bad could it be if you guys just alternated churches each Sunday?

They cannot do that. Neither the Catholic nor Orthodox Church would allow that.

Catholics have an obligation to attend Mass every week. The Orthodox have an obligation to attend Divine Liturgy weekly. A Catholic cannot fulfill this obligation at an Orthodox liturgy, and vice versa.

I mean yeah, that is going to get complicated when kids come along so you’d better have an even number so that half can be Orthodox and half Catholic. Wait. Maybe I’ve gotta do a bit more thinking here before I offer advice. Sorry!

Most definitely.

 

[angelic06]

Your hypothetical Catholic wife can only be a Catholic mom to your hypothetical future children–she can’t be an Orthodox mom, because she’s not Orthodox.

Think about what you want for your hypothetical future children and think about whether it’s very likely that a Catholic woman can provide that for them.

Less dramatically, I’m an ethnically WASP Catholic convert woman with an ethnic cradle Catholic husband. I do not provide the “ethnic” component of our home life (such as it is). I am quite happy to go along with it, but I don’t drive it. My husband and his family have to provide that element of our family life.

If you marry a Catholic woman (even if she is friendly to and tolerant of Eastern traditions), providing an Orthodox home for yourself and your children will be on your shoulders.

Also, come to think of it, the various Orthodox fasting and dietary stuff is also a large obstacle to combining homes.
It is an interesting problem, because on a high doctrinal level, there’s not a great deal of difference. It’s in the day-to-day that I think you’d see major difficulty (unless both of you were very lax).

As far as fasting is concerned, this is not too much of an obstacle, as there are Byzantine Catholics (similar to Orthodox) who have similar fasting requirements and who are married to Roman Catholics.

That being said, I do agree that on the Catholic side, providing for a serious Catholic family is essential, and that on the Orthodox, likewise to provide for a serious Orthodox family. In Eastern theology, the family is the “domestic Church”…and what kind of a “Church” do we have that cannot commune together? This is something the OP will have to work out with his future wife, and if he wishes to receive the Holy Communion of our Lord Jesus Christ in the Catholic Church, he will have to receive permission from his own (Orthodox) bishop. I do not know whether or not it has ever been granted by the Orthodox authorities to an Orthodox Christian to receive Holy Communion in a Catholic church (after the ancient split of the two).

Other than Divine Liturgy (Mass), what kind of prayer life are the OP and his wife going to have? The Eastern tradition places a good emphasis on the Divine Office (Vespers…and Liturgy of the Presanctified Gifts during Great and Holy Lent, in which, if the children are raised Catholic, they cannot receive in an Orthodox church).

What about education of the children? Speaking for myself, I would like to place my children in Catholic schools, so that my children can be educated completely—spiritually and academically.

I am not overtly encouraging or discouraging the OP one way or the other. While I have my own opinions, I acknowledge it is not my situation. I am simply placing things out for consideration. Eventually, you (the OP) have to work things out, with a great amount of prayer.

 

[Xantippe]

As far as fasting is concerned, this is not too much of an obstacle, as there are Byzantine Catholics (similar to Orthodox) who have similar fasting requirements and who are married to Roman Catholics.

**I suspect that works better if the primary cooking spouse is the Eastern spouse or if the Catholic spouse is vegan.

Or if the Eastern spouse has an unlimited appetite for commercial frozen vegan meals.

It’s not impossible, it’s just that the daily mechanics of it are (ironically) much more demanding than for a Latin Rite Catholic-Protestant couple.
**

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

While there is no impediment to the Orthodox receiving in the Catholic Church from the Catholic standpoint, the Orthodox do not permit it. In fact, it’s an excommunicable offense for their members. So, the statement that neither can receive in the other’s Church is accurate.

Interesting. I didn’t know it was an excommunicable offense.

I have known Greek Orthodox to attend Catholic Mass and receive. I assumed, that it was fine for them to do so, because of the quote I had provided.

Thanks for the clarification.

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

Thanks for the clarification. I’ll just assume the ones I witnessed were not aware.

 

[Kosta]

Even then it’s not a sure-fire guarantee. An old friend of mine was baptized Chaldean but mostly raised in her mother’s Ukrainian Catholic tradition. She had a look of bemusement and horror on her face when I showed her my komboskini/prayer-rope, saying that in the Ukrainian tradition only the rosary is prayed (which I bet it’s not). Then on another occasion, she said Ukrainian Catholic priests never get married and that such a tradition is not even contemplated because they belong to seven monastic orders. I know that one at least isn’t true because I have met the dean of the Ukrainian Catholic cathedral of Chicago’s wife and toddler. Lest anyone say that she is uneducated, she is studying to become a nun of the Dominican Order; uneducated she is not. She even wants to take “Chrysostom” or “Basil” as her monastic name. I hope she’s just one unfortunate case of not knowing and not a trend of Eastern Catholicism in the US.

Thanks for the clarification. I’ll just assume the ones I witnessed were not aware.

That’s definitely out of ignorance. I had to just about physically restrain a Catholic friend of mine in the pew who would refuse to accept that he is not allowed to commune in our Church even though the only difference between us was that we worship icons. Some people just aren’t educated in these matters.

It’s self-excommunicative. Think about it; if you’re communing at one church, you believe what that community and their hierarchy believe. Our Church and yours do not believe the same thing in every matter; if we did, then we would not have had a violent split a couple centuries in the making.

 

[angelic06]

As a general remark (not directed to anyone in particular), I find it very sad that Catholics and Orthodox Christians are not in full communion and thus cannot commune (receive the Holy Communion of our Lord Christ) with each other. I attend my local Byzantine (Ruthenian) Catholic community, which has very beautiful liturgy and traditions, and I intend to introduce the Byzantine tradition to my children. That being said, I am a Roman Catholic young man (31 years old, going on 32) and I am, like the OP, interested in marriage. The Byzantine Catholic community I attend is, however, a very small community and there are very ** few women of marriageable age there (between 20-30 regular attendees total) and most will probably move on to other cities and pursuits before I am ready to date again**. I would probably have more luck dating someone from the Orthodox churches in the San Antonio area (there are several Orthodox parishes here); I do not believe, however, considering my beliefs about the family as the “domestic Church”, that I can, in conscience, date outside the Holy Catholic Faith.

** (That being said, I am not too worried, as I too intend to move on to other cities and pursuits in the near future. I am simply stating an observation on how full communion between the two Churches, Catholic and Orthodox, would be a good situation, and not to mention, pleasing in the eyes of His Majesty our God and King, since it is not His will that Christians be divided among themselves.) **

 

[PhiloMed]

To get back to the OP’s question, you need to decide how important your faith and traditions are to you.

I married someone from the Orthodox church. We married in the Catholic Church and he agreed that our children would be raised Catholic. Within a few years of our marriage he essentially became Catholic though he culturally still identifies with and appreciates many orthodox traditions.

I did not have any interest in becoming Orthodox, though a family member of his married a Catholic woman who became Orthodox.

It can work, but I think it works better if you ultimately choose that the family will go one way or the other.

 

[angelic06]

Thank you for sharing, if I am in error I apologize.

It is my understanding that the directive to receive/not receive came from the religion of origin of the PERSON.

Just as the Catholic Church forbids me to receive communion in a Lutheran Church, the Catholic Church does not allow me to receive in the Orthodox church, I am morally bound by the teachings of my own faith, not necessarily by the rules thrust upon me by other faiths although I would want to be respectful. I didn’t think that it was the other way around as you explained with the rules.

I know that danger of death and other circumstances are an exception, but again, that is my understanding but thank you for bringing this up now I want to look into it further.

Praying for unity between the two, that would be wonderful!

Monicad,

Those who wish to receive Holy Communion in another Church are bound by both the laws of their own Church and the one in which they wish to receive. Orthodox rules prevent us from receiving there, therefore we must comply.

The threat of religious indifference and regard for the divine honor also require us to not receive Holy Communion irrespectively.

 

[angelic06]

Goodness that rings a bell (now that you wrote it of course!) I should know better than to be little miss know-it-all knowledge on two hours sleep. Even on a good nights sleep my faith knowledge is so thin! God bless your day and thank you for your kind correction. Off to bed with me.

Don’t worry about it! Somehow my gut told me you already knew this. I also miss things from time to time and am open to correction. It is 9:30 pm here in Texas. Good night!

(PS Two hours of sleep? If I may ask, what is your profession?)