Orthodox please explain your churches position on ecuminisim

[excaliber]

I heard eastern Orthodox were strongly against the idea that all religions were good in nature. And that different religions were not diferent rooms of the same house.
So if Eastern Orthodox don’t believe that there church can work side by side with other world religions…

Why did I see video of The pope of Rome at the world council of churches with
Hindu,budhist,muslims,zostrasism,shamanism, etc…etc and standing next to the pope was EASTERN ORTHODOX.

So are all religions ok or not?
And if they are not ok, what is the purpose in working with them…which gives the impresion that Eastern Orthodox is just one of many equal religions?

 

[excaliber]

I have another question, since there is NO ANSWER for the first.

How do Eastern Orthodox even know what to think about there churches stand on matters?
This is the strong point of the Roman Catholic church with one head earthly sheapherd,
The sheep know what direction they should go.

But how dose it work with a group of equal bishops, with no ONE voice on any matter?

Is this the reason the Roman Church has grown in membership, because the Pope’s have simply taken the lead in showing the world The Churches role in the worlds afairs.
While people are left to wounder where the Orthodox leadership is…if they know The Orthodox Church exists?

 

[prodromos]

I heard eastern Orthodox were strongly against the idea that all religions were good in nature. And that different religions were not diferent rooms of the same house.
So if Eastern Orthodox don’t believe that there church can work side by side with other world religions…

Why did I see video of The pope of Rome at the world council of churches with
Hindu,budhist,muslims,zostrasism,shamanism, etc…etc and standing next to the pope was EASTERN ORTHODOX.

Who was he? What Church did he represent? How do you know he was ‘EASTERN ORTHODOX’?

John

 

[Hesychios]

Is this a bait thread?

 

[prodromos]

I have another question, since there is NO ANSWER for the first.

How do Eastern Orthodox even know what to think about there churches stand on matters?
This is the strong point of the Roman Catholic church with one head earthly sheapherd,
The sheep know what direction they should go.

In the wrong direction which they have been led by the Pope? Of course you do not accept that but it is plain as day to us.

But how dose it work with a group of equal bishops, with no ONE voice on any matter?

In matters of faith and dogma the bishops are of one voice. Two thousand years later we still have the same faith as the Apostles so why do you care how it works when it has obviously been working fine all this time.

Is this the reason the Roman Church has grown in membership, because the Pope’s have simply taken the lead in showing the world The Churches role in the worlds afairs.

No, your membership has grown because of military conquest and due to Catholic families having babies.

While people are left to wounder where the Orthodox leadership is…if they know The Orthodox Church exists?

Catholics seem to be the only ones who can’t grasp conciliar leadership, and you seem to be ignorant of what the Orthodox Church has suffered in the last century.

John

 

[excaliber]

Who was he? What Church did he represent? How do you know he was ‘EASTERN ORTHODOX’?

John

I saw with my own eyes, Eastern Orthodox bishops several of them not just one…at the world council of churches. You can even find video on you tube of this major event.

Yet I heard that the Eastern Orthodox do not suport the world council of churches…
So which is it?

 

[excaliber]

In the wrong direction which they have been led by the Pope? Of course you do not accept that but it is plain as day to us.
In matters of faith and dogma the bishops are of one voice. Two thousand years later we still have the same faith as the Apostles so why do you care how it works when it has obviously been working fine all this time.
No, your membership has grown because of military conquest and due to Catholic families having babies.
Catholics seem to be the only ones who can’t grasp conciliar leadership, and you seem to be ignorant of what the Orthodox Church has suffered in the last century.

John

Membership is growing because of military conquest? I’m sorry I was not aware that the Roman Catholics were converting America by force.

Pope leading in the wrong direction? That is not fair, you canot just sit back and have NO leadership in todays world afairs…and at the same time blaim the Roman church for bieng vocal on matters. That’s like me pointing blame on you for making a low grade in a coledge test, while I myself am not even in coledge. The Roman Church is in the middle of world afairs…where is the Eastern Orthodox?

I am aware of Eastern Orthodox persecution, and yes it dose explain some why the Orthodox Church spread later in some areas.

I like the idea of Eastern Orthodox leadership, it sounds good. But sola scriptura also sounds great, till I found out it did not work…so dose the Orthodox form of leadership work, can all the bishops get together often enugh to deal with ever changing problems facing christianity?

 

[prodromos]

I saw with my own eyes, Eastern Orthodox bishops several of them not just one…at the world council of churches. You can even find video on you tube of this major event.

How do you know they were Eastern Orthodox? Do you know their names? They could have been Eastern Catholic bishops or Oriental Orthodox or Assyrian. I know of no Eastern Orthodox bishops taking part in religious gatherings with Hindus and Buddhists.

John

 

[prodromos]

Membership is growing because of military conquest? I’m sorry I was not aware that the Roman Catholics were converting America by force.

South America was conquered by the Spanish, as were the Philipines. If you were speaking of North America then you should have specified such.

Pope leading in the wrong direction? That is not fair, you canot just sit back and have NO leadership in todays world afairs…and at the same time blaim the Roman church for bieng vocal on matters. That’s like me pointing blame on you for making a low grade in a coledge test, while I myself am not even in coledge. The Roman Church is in the middle of world afairs…where is the Eastern Orthodox?

Apart from the world yet praying for it.

I like the idea of Eastern Orthodox leadership, it sounds good. But sola scriptura also sounds great, till I found out it did not work…so dose the Orthodox form of leadership work, can all the bishops get together often enugh to deal with ever changing problems facing christianity?

I believe so.

John

 

[gmcbroom]

Yep a bait thread. Actually the Roman catholic church did spread through conquest. Thoough it was mainly brought with the conquerers. Atleast in the US and Mexico.

 

[Rightlydivide]

Different rooms of the SAME house? That is not what you believe.

 

[excaliber]

I have been trying to get the Orthodox view point on it.
The world council of churches is something I remember well.
I was a Jehovahs witness and we had a magazine about it.

I remember the Pope of Rome bieng there for sure…but I can’t get an answer from the Orthodox about if there church is or was a member of the world council of churches?

 

[Nine_Two]

“The Orthodox Church” is not a member of the WCC, however most Orthodox Churches are members. For the record this is not supported by all Orthodox (myself among them). However the purpose of the council is not eventual reconcilliation but so churches can work together on matters they agree on.

As a side note, Rome is not a member, but rather an observer.

Many of the accusations made by the OP show a lack of knowledge about the Orthodox Church, while lacking knowledge is alright, making a thread attacking how it works when you don’t know the first thing about it is not. If you have questions ask them in charity.

 

[Andrew_Phillip]

“The Orthodox Church” is not a member of the WCC, however most Orthodox Churches are members. For the record this is not supported by all Orthodox (myself among them). However the purpose of the council is not eventual reconcilliation but so churches can work together on matters they agree on.

As a side note, Rome is not a member, but rather an observer.

Many of the accusations made by the OP show a lack of knowledge about the Orthodox Church, while lacking knowledge is alright, making a thread attacking how it works when you don’t know the first thing about it is not. If you have questions ask them in charity.

:clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping::

 

[excaliber]

“The Orthodox Church” is not a member of the WCC, however most Orthodox Churches are members. For the record this is not supported by all Orthodox (myself among them). However the purpose of the council is not eventual reconcilliation but so churches can work together on matters they agree on.

As a side note, Rome is not a member, but rather an observer.

Many of the accusations made by the OP show a lack of knowledge about the Orthodox Church, while lacking knowledge is alright, making a thread attacking how it works when you don’t know the first thing about it is not. If you have questions ask them in charity.

Where was the lack of charity in my original post?
How is asking a question an attack?
Mabey my second post SEEMED to lack charity, but if you check the thread again you will notice that there was no response to my original post, and I had to ask the question again
A little more bluntly.

As far as lacking knowledge of the Orthodox Church, I live in the U.S.A. and I don’t know many people who don’t lack knowledge of the Orthodox Church.

So why am I asking questions of the Eastern Orthodox?
I am starting to come to the conclusion that there is no one true organization.
Roman Catholics have problems not just with imperfect people but BISHOPS supporting gays, services looking and sounding more like a protestant service.

So I look into Eastern Orthodoxy because I hear good things about it, that the Eastern Orthodox Church is the ONE true Church, KEEP IN MIND THAT I’M NOT SAYING ITS NOT… I am just trying to under stand how, “The Eastern Orthodox Church is not a member of the world council of churches…BUT MOST EASTERN ORTHODOX CHURCHES ARE MEMBERS.”

That dosent make sence to someone trying to learn about your church.
Are these individual churches that go against The Eastern Orthodox Church given any sort of punishment?

 

[Madaglan]

I heard eastern Orthodox were strongly against the idea that all religions were good in nature. And that different religions were not diferent rooms of the same house.
So if Eastern Orthodox don’t believe that there church can work side by side with other world religions…

Why did I see video of The pope of Rome at the world council of churches with
Hindu,budhist,muslims,zostrasism,shamanism, etc…etc and standing next to the pope was EASTERN ORTHODOX.

So are all religions ok or not?
And if they are not ok, what is the purpose in working with them…which gives the impresion that Eastern Orthodox is just one of many equal religions?

Ecumenism, in the Orthodox understanding of it, is something wider than in the technical Catholic sense. In the technical Catholic definition of it, Ecumenism refers only to relations with Christian organizations. It does not refer to other religions. Relations with other religions is considered inter-faith dialog… Orthodoxy by ecumenism refers to both relations with Christian groups and with non-Christian religions.

The ancient canons of the Church proscribe the praying with heretics. Some Orthodox take this in a very literal way and see any prayers in common (even non-liturgical) held in common with heretics as unholy and sinful. There are other Orthodox who say there can be no common Eucharistic celebration with heretics, but allow greater flexibility in personal prayer situations (e.g. attending a non-Orthodox wedding, meal blessings, etc.) There has been no little criticism amongst Orthodox of Orthodox attendance of the WCC. The Orthodox delegates at the WCC themselves have often voiced criticism of WCC procedures.

In Catholicism today, the emphasis is that all major religions have some seed of the truth. Orthodoxy accepts this as well, yet in Orthodoxy there is perhaps a stronger emphasis that all the gods of the nations are demons. It is for this that many Orthodox look askance at, among other religions, Hinduism and native religions. Even in this area there is tension, and while one Orthodox may laud, say, a book of Seraphim Rose on false religions, another Orthodox may deprecate the views as erroneous, insensitive and a throwback to darker times.

 

[Nine_Two]

Where was the lack of charity in my original post?
How is asking a question an attack?

It is not your first post, but your second that I found seemed to be an attack, I would have answered your first however I just didn’t see it. Notably you stated what you know of the Orthodox with negative terms, and seem to downplay us because many are ignorent to our existence. Your wording came off as being on the offensive, and I can see my fellow Orthodox interpretted it the same way.

]
As far as lacking knowledge of the Orthodox Church, I live in the U.S.A. and I don’t know many people who don’t lack knowledge of the Orthodox Church.

As I said, ignorence of a subject is never wrong in and of itself.

So why am I asking questions of the Eastern Orthodox?
I am starting to come to the conclusion that there is no one true organization.
Roman Catholics have problems not just with imperfect people but BISHOPS supporting gays, services looking and sounding more like a protestant service.

So I look into Eastern Orthodoxy because I hear good things about it, that the Eastern Orthodox Church is the ONE true Church, KEEP IN MIND THAT I’M NOT SAYING ITS NOT… I am just trying to under stand how, “The Eastern Orthodox Church is not a member of the world council of churches…BUT MOST EASTERN ORTHODOX CHURCHES ARE MEMBERS.”

Because the “Eastern Orthodox Church” is itself not an actual body, but a communion of a number of fully independant Churches. Therefore it is not a member as it has no actual legal status as an organization, however various Orthodox Churches (I believe most) are members, each on an individual basis, and each representing itself.

That dosent make sence to someone trying to learn about your church.
Are these individual churches that go against The Eastern Orthodox Church given any sort of punishment?

If a Church ever went against the teachings of Holy Orthodoxy they would be expelled from the Communion, as happened with Rome long ago.

 

[excaliber]

Ecumenism, in the Orthodox understanding of it, is something wider than in the technical Catholic sense. In the technical Catholic definition of it, Ecumenism refers only to relations with Christian organizations. It does not refer to other religions. Relations with other religions is considered inter-faith dialog… Orthodoxy by ecumenism refers to both relations with Christian groups and with non-Christian religions.

The ancient canons of the Church proscribe the praying with heretics. Some Orthodox take this in a very literal way and see any prayers in common (even non-liturgical) held in common with heretics as unholy and sinful. There are other Orthodox who say there can be no common Eucharistic celebration with heretics, but allow greater flexibility in personal prayer situations (e.g. attending a non-Orthodox wedding, meal blessings, etc.) There has been no little criticism amongst Orthodox of Orthodox attendance of the WCC. The Orthodox delegates at the WCC themselves have often voiced criticism of WCC procedures.

In Catholicism today, the emphasis is that all major religions have some seed of the truth. Orthodoxy accepts this as well, yet in Orthodoxy there is perhaps a stronger emphasis that all the gods of the nations are demons. It is for this that many Orthodox look askance at, among other religions, Hinduism and native religions. Even in this area there is tension, and while one Orthodox may laud, say, a book of Seraphim Rose on false religions, another Orthodox may deprecate the views as erroneous, insensitive and a throwback to darker times.

Thank you for that answer.
I am an ex Jehovahs witness, and I am used to a strong central leadership.
I’m not used to not knowing exactly my churches position on any matter.
My ability as a Jehovahs witness to answer any question asked about almost any topic made me feel like I was living my faith. It is a little scary to study Orthodoxy and see one individual church go one way and another go the opposite.

Also in The Roman Catholic Church an individual church can go against tradishional
Papal teaching because of liberal bishops. This did not exist in the Jehovahs witness church because anyone going against central leadership would be removed as SOON as it became known.

That is why situations like this is hard to understand.

 

[Nine_Two]

Part of Orthodox belief is the idea that doctrine is completely unchanging, therefore groups going against the teaching of the church have up until recently been quite rare. With protestant influences it is becoming more common that groups will break off, but the Communion as a whole holds steady in doctrine.

 

[excaliber]

It is not your first post, but your second that I found seemed to be an attack, I would have answered your first however I just didn’t see it. Notably you stated what you know of the Orthodox with negative terms, and seem to downplay us because many are ignorent to our existence. Your wording came off as being on the offensive, and I can see my fellow Orthodox interpretted it the same way.

As I said, ignorence of a subject is never wrong in and of itself.

Because the “Eastern Orthodox Church” is itself not an actual body, but a communion of a number of fully independant Churches. Therefore it is not a member as it has no actual legal status as an organization, however various Orthodox Churches (I believe most) are members, each on an individual basis, and each representing itself.

If a Church ever went against the teachings of Holy Orthodoxy they would be expelled from the Communion, as happened with Rome long ago.

I admited that my second post was sharper then the first but only because I thought the first post was not understood or ignored, An argument is not the intention.

How exactly are all individual churches kept in Orthodoxy?

My former church was also governed by a group of I think 12 men, but they reside in one place New York which is where all direction comes from.
If I understand correctly you also have not one man but a group of bishops, however they are all in different parts of the world and only meet together if they have to, dosent that leave many modern day issues unresolved?

The way my former church was kept in order was by a traveling representative from there governing body who would oversee activity in a group of mabey 7 churches, he had over him a traveling representative that had oversight of mabey 16 or more churches…every problem or issue is reported to there governing body in New York where they can swiftly make decisions on an issue.

I am used to TOTAL unity, so I am very interested in how oversight is kept over a group of independent churches, dose every major Orthodox bishop have to travel to one spot to discus issues in our ever changing society?