Orthodox saints and visions

  • Thread starter Thread starter EIF5A
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
E

EIF5A

Guest
There are Catholic saints that had literal conversations with God. Why isn’t there a similar tradition in Eastern Orthodoxy? Isn’t God the same for both Churches? Why would He appear and converse with one but not the other?
 
What those conversations were about? do you have links to them?
 
There have been many visitations by the saints, the Theotokos, and even our Lord Himself to Eastern Orthodox, in particular to monastics.
 
dcointin said:
There have been many visitations by the saints, the Theotokos, and even our Lord Himself to Eastern Orthodox, in particular to monastics.
Click to expand...
OK, could you please tell me where so I can look them up.? Our Lord/and Our Lady have appeared in the Catholic Church for hundreds of years.

I. Lourdes
2.Fatima
3. Garabandal
4. Knock in Ireland.
5. Guadeloupe in Mexico

Just to mention just a few,

Our Lord has also appeared to some nuns

Sr. Faustina ( The Divine Mercy)
St. Bernadette (Lourdes)
St. Catherine of Siena (Dominican Nun who had the Stigmata)
St. Francis of Assisi who also had the Stigmata.

Thank you I look forward to seeing where Our Lord and Our Lady have appeared in the Orthodox Church information is always a good thing. Monastery/Convent/Church is fine.:signofcross:
 
Sam_777 said:
What those conversations were about? do you have links to them?
Click to expand...
If you look up Books on the Saints mentioned

the most recent is Sr. Faustina, you can read what Our Lord said to her and to the other Saints I mentioned. You might even get some on Line also. (Try Google)

God Bless.:signofcross:
 
The West generally records these conversations and publishes them for everyone. The East doesn’t do this. If someone has a private revelation it is generally seen as being just that; private.

There are many differences like this. The West has statues that cry blood, we have Icons that stream myrrh. The West has stigmata, the East has The Uncreated Light. There are other differences too; in the East Eucharistic miracles are an embarrassment - they mean someone didn’t believe in the Real Presence enough. In the West they’re very popular because they’re seen as confirming the doctrine.
 
Rawb said:
The West generally records these conversations and publishes them for everyone. The East doesn’t do this. If someone has a private revelation it is generally seen as being just that; private.

There are many differences like this. The West has statues that cry blood, we have Icons that stream myrrh. The West has stigmata, the East has The Uncreated Light. There are other differences too; in the East Eucharistic miracles are an embarrassment - they mean someone didn’t believe in the Real Presence enough. In the West they’re very popular because they’re seen as confirming the doctrine.
Click to expand...
Interesting…
 
Celtic_Maiden said:
OK, could you please tell me where so I can look them up.? Our Lord/and Our Lady have appeared in the Catholic Church for hundreds of years.

I. Lourdes
2.Fatima
3. Garabandal
4. Knock in Ireland.
5. Guadeloupe in Mexico

Just to mention just a few,

Our Lord has also appeared to some nuns

Sr. Faustina ( The Divine Mercy)
St. Bernadette (Lourdes)
St. Catherine of Siena (Dominican Nun who had the Stigmata)
St. Francis of Assisi who also had the Stigmata.

Thank you I look forward to seeing where Our Lord and Our Lady have appeared in the Orthodox Church information is always a good thing. Monastery/Convent/Church is fine.:signofcross:
Click to expand...
I find it interesting that (at least by my understanding) God the Father spoke to St. Catherine of Siena but Jesus spoke to St. Faustina. Father and the Son are one yet distinct…I cannot fully understand the Holy Trinity and do not know how to address the Holy Trinity properly…:bowdown:😊:hmmm:
 
fatheralexander.org/booklets/english/elder_paisios_mount_athos.htm
  • Elder Paisios was a man of lofty spiritual life. He received many heavenly visitations from our Lord Jesus Christ, His Most Holy Mother, and the saints; he was granted the gifts of clairvoyance and of miracle-working; he beheld the Uncreated Light in divine vision; and he was filled with God’s Grace to such an extent that he attained to deification (theosis).*
 
dcointin said:
There have been many visitations by the saints, the Theotokos, and even our Lord Himself to Eastern Orthodox, in particular to monastics.
Click to expand...
If they were private as you said, how come then they were talked about in as far as "I have had a Revelation but I am not discussing it. That is convenient. Its a bit like the mysterious books that Joseph Smith was meant to have received, and when asked where they were “OH God wanted them back” apart from Our Lady in Egypt there has been no recording of any sighting to a large crowd in Russia/Greece or any Orthodox Country of Our Lady otherwise hundreds/thousands would have seen her or some miracle that happened in Mexico when she appeared to Juan Diego and the flowers in his Tilma. No doubt the Lord has given some Holy Orthodox Monks revelations, but they are not just as much or like in the Catholic Church, I know you love Our Lady and Our Lord BUT it has not happened and that is it. Admit the truth.
 
The reason these visions, visitations, miracles, etc. are not publicized at the time they occur is to avoid the temptation of pride. They usually occur to especially holy people who fear that, if they were known, they would lead to attention, praise, and the loss of the humility they work so long to acquire. They therefore almost always ask for those who know about them not to say anything until they have reposed, so these stories only come out afterward. Their purpose is not to demonstrate the holiness of men, but the mercy of God who sees our weakness and grants us his mercy in this unique way. These stores can be found primarily in books of the lives of the saints, and are so common I could only recommend reading a compilation. One contemporary saint I would recommend looking into is Elder Paisios of Mt. Athos, who reposed in 1994.
 
Celtic_Maiden said:
If they were private as you said, how come then they were talked about in as far as "I have had a Revelation but I am not discussing it. That is convenient. Its a bit like the mysterious books that Joseph Smith was meant to have received, and when asked where they were “OH God wanted them back” apart from Our Lady in Egypt there has been no recording of any sighting to a large crowd in Russia/Greece or any Orthodox Country of Our Lady otherwise hundreds/thousands would have seen her or some miracle that happened in Mexico when she appeared to Juan Diego and the flowers in his Tilma. No doubt the Lord has given some Holy Orthodox Monks revelations, but they are not just as much or like in the Catholic Church, I know you love Our Lady and Our Lord BUT it has not happened and that is it. Admit the truth.
Click to expand...
The example of Joseph Smith is someone who made a big deal out of his supposed encounter with God but had no proof, we generally don’t make a big deal of those things.

There is a story from the Lives of the Desert Fathers. A group of monks had had visions, and they wished to discover if they were from God, or from the devil. They sought out St. Anthony the Great, on their way to visit him one of their donkeys died.
When they arrived, St. Anthony asked them about their donkey. Surprised, they asked him how he knew, and he told them, “The demons told me in a vision.”
They had their answer about their own visions.

This is another reason we don’t publicize visions and apparitions. It is only with great prayer and discernment that we can truly know whether or not they are from God.
 
I do wonder, if God, in His mercies and granting humans some leeway because very few people have a full understanding of salvation/theosis, allows revelations according to our predisposition or knowledge. 😊🤷

The bleeding statues and stigmata are more common in Roman Catholicism and she emphasizes suffering and agony of Our Lord more than the east. The east has the Uncreated Light and theosis, and the saints are imbued with it — is that like the Transfigured/glorified/triumphant state of humankind?
 
EIF5A said:
I do wonder, if God, in His mercies and granting humans some leeway because very few people have a full understanding of salvation/theosis, allows revelations according to our predisposition or knowledge. 😊🤷

The bleeding statues and stigmata are more common in Roman Catholicism and she emphasizes suffering and agony of Our Lord more than the east. The east has the Uncreated Light and theosis, and the saints are imbued with it — is that like the Transfigured/glorified/triumphant state of humankind?
Click to expand...
That’s my guess as well as to why the experiences are somewhat different. I think that God is giving us experiences that are meaningful and helpful based on who we are as individuals, which is why we avoid using them to draw conclusions for the Church as a whole.
 
Celtic_Maiden said:
If they were private as you said, how come then they were talked about in as far as "I have had a Revelation but I am not discussing it. That is convenient. Its a bit like the mysterious books that Joseph Smith was meant to have received, and when asked where they were “OH God wanted them back” apart from Our Lady in Egypt there has been no recording of any sighting to a large crowd in Russia/Greece or any Orthodox Country of Our Lady otherwise hundreds/thousands would have seen her or some miracle that happened in Mexico when she appeared to Juan Diego and the flowers in his Tilma. No doubt the Lord has given some Holy Orthodox Monks revelations, but they are not just as much or like in the Catholic Church, I know you love Our Lady and Our Lord BUT it has not happened and that is it. Admit the truth.
Click to expand...
Who cares? Why does it matter whether the Orthodox have similar experiences as Fatima or Lourdes? They don’t demonstrate that the CC is true. Neither is part of the catholic faith, so a catholic could easily deny that they were from God.
 
Celtic_Maiden said:
If they were private as you said, how come then they were talked about in as far as "I have had a Revelation but I am not discussing it. That is convenient. Its a bit like the mysterious books that Joseph Smith was meant to have received, and when asked where they were “OH God wanted them back” apart from Our Lady in Egypt there has been no recording of any sighting to a large crowd in Russia/Greece or any Orthodox Country of Our Lady otherwise hundreds/thousands would have seen her or some miracle that happened in Mexico when she appeared to Juan Diego and the flowers in his Tilma. No doubt the Lord has given some Holy Orthodox Monks revelations, but they are not just as much or like in the Catholic Church, I know you love Our Lady and Our Lord BUT it has not happened and that is it. Admit the truth.
Click to expand...
You are too kind. Nevermind the many icons of the Theotokos which weep miracle-working myrrh, nor the many who are healed by her intercessions. We have no need of these mass-apparitions (which by the way, are classed within your own Church as private revelations, which the faithful are not themselves compelled to accept) because the saints are truly with us in our daily lives, as made present by the grace-filled icons which typify them and make them truly present by the power of God (perhaps some feel such a need to seek after such mass-apparitions because they lack a proper theology of icons, as taught by the Seventh Ecumenical Council?). It is truly as Christ taught a wicked and adulterous generation which seeks after signs.
 
Cavaradossi said:
It is truly as Christ taught a wicked and adulterous generation which seeks after signs.
Click to expand...
This is most important I think, a faith based on signs and miracles is weak. Scripture is full of examples of signs from other faiths.
 
Nine_Two said:
This is most important I think, a faith based on signs and miracles is weak. Scripture is full of examples of signs from other faiths.
Click to expand...
At least in the case of the Marian apparitions, it was more than just miracles — they taught new prayers/devotions and revelations. If these signs were from God, wouldn’t they increase our faith and guide us to salvation?

As someone who has not fully committed to the Catholic Church, I still have some reservations about prayers that promise such and such upon consecration to the Immaculate Heart or certain prayers said in a particular formula or revelations that only Mary can provide peace, but again, if they are truly from God, isn’t that a good thing and not a sign of weakness of faith?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top