Orthodox taking Catholic Communion

[Paul_theApostle]

Why does the Catholic Church offer and allow Orthodox Christians to participate fully in the Catholic Sacraments when according to the Orthodox church ,an Orthodox christian is not allowed to do so?

Say if some Orthodox Christian himself wanted to take communion with the Catholics ,would it be okay to do so ,because Rome allows this?

Or would it not be okay because his Orthodox Church DOESNT allow this?

So what should the Orth. Christian do? follow Romes acceptance of him into the Sacraments or listen to his own Priest/Bishops advice and not participate?

If he should listen to his Orthodox priest,then why would Rome offer the Sacraments to the Orthodox if its wrong for them to do so?

 

[dzheremi]

The Orthodox Christian should not partake, in accordance with the rule of his own church. The Roman Catholic Church offers, it seems, because it sees the two churches as sharing the same faith, with doctrinal differences being mainly a matter of differing expressions of the same basic faith.

 

[Mark_of_Ephesus]

Why does the Catholic Church offer and allow Orthodox Christians to participate fully in the Catholic Sacraments when according to the Orthodox church ,an Orthodox christian is not allowed to do so?

Say if some Orthodox Christian himself wanted to take communion with the Catholics ,would it be okay to do so ,because Rome allows this?

Or would it not be okay because his Orthodox Church DOESNT allow this?

So what should the Orth. Christian do? follow Romes acceptance of him into the Sacraments or listen to his own Priest/Bishops advice and not participate?

I think the individual in question should clearly obey his own hierarchs. I cannot imagine why he would remain in communion with them if he was not prepared to follow their instuctions.

If he should listen to his Orthodox priest,then why would Rome offer the Sacraments to the Orthodox if its wrong for them to do so?

The missalette at my old RCC parish stated :

“Members of the Orthodox Churches, the Assyrian Church of the East, and the Polish National Catholic Church are urged to respect the discipline of their own Churches. According to Roman Catholic discipline, the Code of Canon Law does not object to the reception of communion by Christians of these Churches”.

 

[Paul_theApostle]

The missalette at my old RCC parish stated :

“Members of the Orthodox Churches, the Assyrian Church of the East, and the Polish National Catholic Church are urged to respect the discipline of their own Churches. According to Roman Catholic discipline, the Code of Canon Law does not object to the reception of communion by Christians of these Churches”.

Then why would Rome allow reception of communion by Orthodox when they say themselves that the Orthodox should not because they should listen to their own church/heirachs?

Say my neighbours daughter was not allowed by her parents to come and play at my house with my daughter,but one day she didnt listen to her parents and came over to my house knocking on the door.

Would i say to her,sorry but your parents do not allow this ,i cant disrespect them and let you in to play,but go back home to your parents please.

Or would i not care what her parents think and let her come in and play with my girl all the time knowing that this goes against her parents wishes?

 

[willofgods]

It could be a question of necessity. For example, if the Orthodox believer is somewhere where no Orthodox churches/parishes/temples/cathedrals are present, then it is better to take Roman Catholic communion than none?

 

[Aelred_Minor]

I would also like clarification on this matter from the Catholic side. Regardless of the position the Orthodox side has actually taken, why have we chosen this oppenness to properly disposed Orthodox recieving communion? Is the common perception that one must be Catholic to receive Catholic communion simply overstated?

 

[Mark_of_Ephesus]

I would also like clarification on this matter from the Catholic side. Regardless of the position the Orthodox side has actually taken, why have we chosen this oppenness to properly disposed Orthodox recieving communion? Is the common perception that one must be Catholic to receive Catholic communion simply overstated?

It is likely ecumenism. The RCC certainly did not feel this way towards the beginning of the 20th century. Code of Canon Law 1917, Canon 731 §2:

“It is forbidden to administer the sacraments of the Church to heretics or schismatics, even though they err in good faith and ask for them, unless they have first renounced their errors and been reconciled with the Church.”

 

[Aelred_Minor]

Some of the relevant parts of the current Code of Canon Law on this matter:

Can. 844 §1. Catholic ministers administer the sacraments licitly to Catholic members of the Christian faithful alone, who likewise receive them licitly from Catholic ministers alone, without prejudice to the prescripts of §§2, 3, and 4 of this canon, and ⇒ can. 861, §2.

§2. Whenever necessity requires it or true spiritual advantage suggests it, and provided that danger of error or of indifferentism is avoided, the Christian faithful for whom it is physically or morally impossible to approach a Catholic minister are permitted to receive the sacraments of penance, Eucharist, and anointing of the sick from non-Catholic ministers in whose Churches these sacraments are valid.

§3. Catholic ministers administer the sacraments of penance, Eucharist, and anointing of the sick licitly to members of Eastern Churches which do not have full communion with the Catholic Church if they seek such on their own accord and are properly disposed. This is also valid for members of other Churches which in the judgment of the Apostolic See are in the same condition in regard to the sacraments as these Eastern Churches.

§4. If the danger of death is present or if, in the judgment of the diocesan bishop or conference of bishops, some other grave necessity urges it, Catholic ministers administer these same sacraments licitly also to other Christians not having full communion with the Catholic Church, who cannot approach a minister of their own community and who seek such on their own accord, provided that they manifest Catholic faith in respect to these sacraments and are properly disposed.

§5. For the cases mentioned in §§2, 3, and 4, the diocesan bishop or conference of bishops is not to issue general norms except after consultation at least with the local competent authority of the interested non-Catholic Church or community.

Can. 912 Any baptized person not prohibited by law can and must be admitted to holy communion.

Can. 916 A person who is conscious of grave sin is not to celebrate Mass or receive the body of the Lord without previous sacramental confession unless there is a grave reason and there is no opportunity to confess; in this case the person is to remember the obligation to make an act of perfect contrition which includes the resolution of confessing as soon as possible.

**

 

[Aelred_Minor]

It is likely ecumenism. The RCC certainly did not feel this way towards the beginning of the 20th century. Code of Canon Law 1917, Canon 731 §2:

“It is forbidden to administer the sacraments of the Church to heretics or schismatics, even though they err in good faith and ask for them, unless they have first renounced their errors and been reconciled with the Church.”

Considering the Orthodox position on the subject I doubt it is so much ecumenism (if anything it seems to damage ecumenism) as sacramental theology, though I’m at a loss to think of what the precise reasons for admitting schismatics (no offence; I assume you’d consider me a schismatic too) to the Eucharist would be.

I once took the position that for an Orthodox to be “properly disposed” to receive communion from a Catholic minister he or she must intend to convert to Catholicism by that act of receiving communion (and prior sacramental confession), and thus Orthodox would merely be exempted from RCIA and such if they wish to become Catholic, but this does not appear to be the actual meaning of the law.

 

[Paul_theApostle]

Considering the Orthodox position on the subject I doubt it is so much ecumenism (if anything it seems to damage ecumenism) as sacramental theology, though I’m at a loss to think of what the precise reasons for admitting schismatics (no offence; I assume you’d consider me a schismatic too) to the Eucharist would be.

I once took the position that for an Orthodox to be “properly disposed” to receive communion from a Catholic minister he or she must intend to convert to Catholicism by that act of receiving communion (and prior sacramental confession), and thus Orthodox would merely be exempted from RCIA and such if they wish to become Catholic, but this does not appear to be the actual meaning of the law.

In past centuries the Orthodox were seen as or called Schismatics from what ive heard here,but in time as maybe God willing unity may come upon us,Rome has become more accepting of the Orthodox and not condemning them as ‘Schismatics’ ,but even recognising their own Priesthood and their Sacraments,which i see as a positive

we should love unity more then division

If the Teachings of The Catholic Church are truely okay ,and not false in Gods eyes ,but are different expressions of Orthodox teaching,then if one day the Orthodox could accept Romes Priesthood also and Sacraments then wouldnt that be a good thing?

If God wills for there to be union ,then slowly the Churches will show more acceptance of one another and slowly come together,and no men or their refusance will be able to stop it.

 

[Aelred_Minor]

In past centuries the Orthodox were seen as or called Schismatics from what ive heard here,but in time as maybe God willing unity may come upon us,Rome has become more accepting of the Orthodox and not condemning them as ‘Schismatics’ ,but even recognising their own Priesthood and their Sacraments,which i see as a positive

we should love unity more then division

If the Teachings of The Catholic Church are truely okay ,and not false in Gods eyes ,but are different expressions of Orthodox teaching,then if one day the Orthodox could accept Romes Priesthood also and Sacraments then wouldnt that be a good thing?

If God wills for there to be union ,then slowly the Churches will show more acceptance of one another and slowly come together,and no men or their refusance will be able to stop it.

I’m afraid I wasn’t able to follow all this, but with regard to whether Orthodox are schismatics, from the Catholic perspective (cf. the Code of Canon Law and the Catechism of the Catholic Church) schism is defined as “the refusal of submission to the Roman Pontiff or of communion with the members of the Church subject to him.” This of course is a legally precise way of indicating a break with the full unity of the Church of Christ as a whole, which is the real essence of schism. We may choose to emphasize how close we are to the Orthodox rather than how far we are from them, but differences in emphasis won’t change the objective reality of whether they are in schism or not.

We should certainly hope for full unity in the future, but it’s not here yet, and our sacramental discipline should reflect the current situation, not what we hope the situation will be in the future.

 

[mirandajb]

The Orthodox Christian should not partake, in accordance with the rule of his own church. The Roman Catholic Church offers, it seems, because it sees the two churches as sharing the same faith, with doctrinal differences being mainly a matter of differing expressions of the same basic faith.

Somewhat similar to Catholics participating in a Protestant Communion service but now allowing the Protestant to partake in ours. I think the Orthodox have a high reverence for the Eucharist and also believe in the Real Presence, hence the common denominator. God bless.

Joe Miranda

 

[Aelred_Minor]

Somewhat similar to Catholics participating in a Protestant Communion service but now allowing the Protestant to partake in ours. I think the Orthodox have a high reverence for the Eucharist and also believe in the Real Presence, hence the common denominator. God bless.

Joe Miranda

Catholics may not receive Protestant communion, unless that communion is valid (which it almost never is) and even then only under unusual circumstances. Protestants meanwhile may “participate” in the Catholic Mass in terms of attending, giving the responses, etc., but ordinarily may not receive communion, except under another set of unusual circumstances. For both of these see Canon 844 quoted above.

By the way I forgot to provide the link for my CIC quotes, so I’ll provide it here.

vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/_INDEX.HTM

 

[Harpazo]

It could be a question of necessity. For example, if the Orthodox believer is somewhere where no Orthodox churches/parishes/temples/cathedrals are present, then it is better to take Roman Catholic communion than none?

No. We have special prayers we say when we cannot go to an Orthodox church for Liturgy. It’s not damning to our souls if we can’t make it because of things beyond our control.

In Christ,
Andrew

 

[Ghosty]

Two things:

First, the Catholic Church isn’t in the business of enforcing the laws of other Churches. The Catholic Church can only make laws pertaining to its own Sacraments and how they are distributed, not for others’. Since the Orthodox are Sacramentally “prepared” for Catholic Sacraments, they are permitted under our laws to receive. This isn’t meant to override their own laws, simply to state the Catholic laws on the matter.

Second, not all Orthodox Bishops hold a hard line against the sharing of Sacraments, and therefore it’s not true to say flatly that the Orthodox don’t allow it. Some Orthodox allow it, some don’t, and there’s no way that the Catholic law should or could keep up with the attitudes of each local Orthodox Church at a given moment, so the law is merely stated from the Catholic perspective and the Orthodox are urged to follow the lead of their own hierarchs, whatever that lead may be.

Peace and God bless!

 

[Aelred_Minor]

No. We have special prayers we say when we cannot go to an Orthodox church for Liturgy. It’s not damning to our souls if we can’t make it because of things beyond our control.

In Christ,
Andrew

In the Latin Rite of the Catholic Church we also are not obliged to get to attend mass when it is impossible (no one can be obligated to do the impossible) or even when something like family needs prevents it, and in any case we are only required to (circumstances permitting) receive communion once a year, not every Sunday though of course frequent reception of communion is encouraged.

 

[Aelred_Minor]

Two things:

First, the Catholic Church isn’t in the business of enforcing the laws of other Churches. The Catholic Church can only make laws pertaining to its own Sacraments and how they are distributed, not for others’. Since the Orthodox are Sacramentally “prepared” for Catholic Sacraments, they are permitted under our laws to receive. This isn’t meant to override their own laws, simply to state the Catholic laws on the matter.

Second, not all Orthodox Bishops hold a hard line against the sharing of Sacraments, and therefore it’s not true to say flatly that the Orthodox don’t allow it. Some Orthodox allow it, some don’t, and there’s no way that the Catholic law should or could keep up with the attitudes of each local Orthodox Church at a given moment, so the law is merely stated from the Catholic perspective and the Orthodox are urged to follow the lead of their own hierarchs, whatever that lead may be.

Peace and God bless!

Good summary on the relationship (or lack thereof) between Catholic law and the laws of other Christian Churches.

On the matter of the Catholic laws on this subject, would you say then that it’s the preparation to receive the sacrament that is important, not whether you are in communion with the Church of the minister from which you receive the sacrament? If so that’s a sort of paradigm shift for me.