Orthodox teaching on Purgatory, or, lack thereof...

[guanophore]

I think its the view that Purgatory is sort of a cleansing punishment. Kind of like when your dad tells you to stand in the corner so that you’ll behave better.

I think it is more like your dad tells you that you have to lose those muddy shoes before you come in the house, and you have to rinse off outside with the hose.

It is appointed us once to die, and after that, the judgment. There will be no more opportunities to “behave better” once we have left this life.

 

[Hiskid1973]

And as I said, the Eastern Church would, I think, have a problem with that. As far as I know they reject works of supererogation as much as Protestants do.

Just a comment from your comment…I’m just a regular 'christian" from a radical conversion experience in my 21st year of life…I have no idea of hours I have put into reading the sacred scriptures over the last almost 40 years…The Holy Spirit using what I read to be changing me into His image…My head just spins reading about some concepts discussed here and other places on this forum…I just think “where on earth do they come up with this stuff”, it’s just so foreign to what I have been reading…

 

[Hiskid1973]

Salvation is not simply a one-time event as Protestants believe, but something we have to struggle with and labor at - but all who have labored, if they have not incurred “mortal and death-bearing sin” , shall receive their portion, no matter how long they have labored or how far along the road to sanctity they got. It’s clearly taught by Christ’s parable; there’s no East or West about it.

There was a “one time” where I was apart from Christ and the next day I experienced a powerful conversion to Christ … I was transferred from the kingdom of darkness to His marvelous light…He was knocking on my hearts door and I opened my life up to Him…That was a one time event…The Holy Spirit uses His word to change me into His image as I live my life before Him…No protestant I know believes he can live the way he wants after his conversion experience…There’s no way you can get into the scriptures and believe that were not a work in progress…from glory to glory…It’s been almost 40 years since I knelt at that altar and felt the weight of a sinful life lift of my shoulders…Some will not mature and end up with ashes instead gold,silver and precious stone to offer our King and Lord, but nevertheless with ashes they enter His kingdom but by God’s grace…

 

[Hiskid1973]

I honestly don’t see how it is a misunderstanding when the CC uses it as an explanation itself.

It seems to me that you are taking a very reasonable and widely accepted idea, and trying to make it fit this weird Latin structure.

Of course people can have effectual prayer for others. Not because there prayers are somehow like a currency that God can apply elsewhere, but because in his love for his creation he chooses to grant them. And yes the prayers of saints may be more effectual - because they are further along the path of union to Christ and so have hearts and wills more in accordance to God’s.

Amen…It’s all about maturity in the walk of faith…

 

[guanophore]

I agree with your analysis.

Additionally, it seems that this system was very unfair to the first generation or two of Christians, who had no predecessors to leave the treasury extra merit. They had to pull themselves up by their own bootstraps.

This is a very common misunderstanding about indulgences and the treasury of merit. The biggest part of the misunderstanding is that we have NO merit apart from Christ. The only benefit we can be to one another in the Body of Christ is through His grace. The idea that spiritual benefit, whether temporal or eternal, can be afforded from one believer to another outside of Christ is preposterous.

 

[mardukm]

Dear Bluegoat,

Of course people can have effectual prayer for others. Not because there prayers are somehow like a currency that God can apply elsewhere, but because in his love for his creation he chooses to grant them. And yes the prayers of saints may be more effectual - because they are further along the path of union to Christ and so have hearts and wills more in accordance to God’s.

Our prayers do not directly affect those in Purgatory or Hades. Our prayers themselves are not the “currency”/the Grace. The Grace God gives to those in Purgatory or Hades is from the Treasury of Merit. It’s a way that the Latin Church interprets the Scriptural exhortation to share our joys and benefit with other members of the body of Christ who may need them.

Though I don’t accept the system, there is one thing about it that I find thoroughly appealing and holy. Non-Latins (and Protestants, especially Protestants) normally interpret St. Paul’s exhortations about the needs of the body of Christ in a purely tactile sense - help out your brethren with their needs here on earth. The system of indulgences IMO makes real in a very unique and more complete way St. Paul’s teaching “if one member suffers, all suffer together, if one member is honored, all rejoice together.” An indulgence is a fruit of your own work in Christ by which you can help another member of the body of Christ spiritually. You can actually participate in God’s work of Grace for the sake of others.

Blessings,
Marduk

P.S. I had other posts responding to you earlier. I hope you don’t miss them.

 

[Hiskid1973]

if one member suffers, all suffer together, if one member is honored, all rejoice together.

" An indulgence is a fruit of your own work in Christ by which you can help another member of the body of Christ spiritually. You can actually participate in God’s work of Grace for the sake of others.

Blessings,
Marduk

P.S. I had other posts responding to you earlier. I hope you don’t miss them.

I think protestants take it that was because it was meant in a tactile way…

 

[guanophore]

Romans 3:23 seems to contradict what you just said. All fall short. There is no “above and beyond”. If you ever want to find a negative account of the greatest of saints just read their autobiographies.

Do you honestly believe that the good deeds of the believers cannot benefit others in the Body?