Orthodox to Catholic

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tepelus

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Hello, I’m new and was referred here by a member of a writing forum I frequent. I have a question to ask you all, and would be thankful for your help. I am currently writing a novel that takes place in 15th c. Hungary, and my main character is being forced to marry a Catholic Hungarian girl, he is an Orthodox Romanian. I have him being forced to convert, and need to know how they would have done this back then and how long the process would take. Also, would it have been necessary for him to convert before he was to be wed to her? Thank you for your help.

Karen
 
tepelus said:
Hello, I’m new and was referred here by a member of a writing forum I frequent. I have a question to ask you all, and would be thankful for your help. I am currently writing a novel that takes place in 15th c. Hungary, and my main character is being forced to marry a Catholic Hungarian girl, he is an Orthodox Romanian. I have him being forced to convert, and need to know how they would have done this back then and how long the process would take. Also, would it have been necessary for him to convert before he was to be wed to her? Thank you for your help.

Karen
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If it was a forced marriage, it probably was a “Conversion by Gunpoint”, which happened a lot during the “Reformation” period of European history.

U-C
 
First of all, a forced marriage would be invalid. (So would a forced conversion!)

Second of all, any conversion at all would not have been necessary. Mixed religious marraiges among royalty were not uncommon.
 
While this is several centuries later, Princess Ileana of Romania (who died as the nun Alexandra) married Grand Duke Anton (Habsburg) of Austria-Hungary.

Her children were baptized and raised Roman Catholic, though she herself was not required to convert.
 
tepelus said:
Hello, I’m new and was referred here by a member of a writing forum I frequent. I have a question to ask you all, and would be thankful for your help. I am currently writing a novel that takes place in 15th c. Hungary, and my main character is being forced to marry a Catholic Hungarian girl, he is an Orthodox Romanian. I have him being forced to convert, and need to know how they would have done this back then and how long the process would take. Also, would it have been necessary for him to convert before he was to be wed to her? Thank you for your help.

Karen
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There are no forced conversions in the Church. It is just a myth.

Those who believe there were forced conversions have, time and again, failed to showed sources of evidence for their claims.
 
Thank you everybody! 🙂 You have all been very helpful. Now that I know that he does not have to become Catholic, I may or may not have him become so of his own free will. However, his marriage will still be forced, due to dear ol’ dad wanting him to marry this girl, at least I have my options open. If I do have him become Catholic, what would he have to do to become so, and how long would it take?

Karen
 
Eucharisted said:
There are no forced conversions in the Church. It is just a myth.

Those who believe there were forced conversions have, time and again, failed to showed sources of evidence for their claims.
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Tell that to the serbs that were forced to convert,by the croatian catholic ustasha,and murdered after conversion,because the croatian catholic ustasha didn’t believe it was true conversion…the fransicans were the worst of the worst…http://www.nobeliefs.com/images/hitler_cardinal4.jpg
 
rad said:
Tell that to the serbs that were forced to convert,by the croatian catholic ustasha,and murdered after conversion,because the croatian catholic ustasha didn’t believe it was true conversion…the fransicans were the worst of the worst…
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Canon Law, at least post 1917, made compulsion of conversion an excommunication offense, excomunicated by the law itself.

Therefore, the Ustaše were excommunicated. Effectively heretics.
 
Aramis said:
Canon Law, at least post 1917, made compulsion of conversion an excommunication offense, excomunicated by the law itself.
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That means the compelled conversions were invalid under canon law, it doesn’t mean they didn’t take place. Forced conversion of Serbian Orthodox by Franciscans during WWII is an established fact.
 
I seems obvious that forced conversions during WWII were done in the name of the State, not in the name of the Church. Forced “conversions” were done to facilitate the interests of the STATE. So the Catholic Church cannot be blamed in traditionally Catholic lands, and neither can the Russian Orthodox be blamed in traditionally Orthodox lands.

And as others have stated, forcing conversion incurs automatic excommunication in the Catholic Church. So whoever was doing the forced “conversions” was NOT a Catholic.

Blessings,
Marduk
 
Dear Karen,
tepelus said:
Thank you everybody! 🙂 You have all been very helpful. Now that I know that he does not have to become Catholic, I may or may not have him become so of his own free will. However, his marriage will still be forced, due to dear ol’ dad wanting him to marry this girl, at least I have my options open. If I do have him become Catholic, what would he have to do to become so, and how long would it take?
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Catholics and Orthodox are SOOOO close in SOOOO many respects that little is required for “conversion” (I put “conversion” in quotes because I personally do not believe that going from Catholic to Orthodox or vice-versa is actually a conversion; I prefer to call it a “translation”). It is normally just a matter of the profession of faith.

As far as translating from Orthodoxy to Catholicism, all that is normally required is confession and some technical matters such as proof of baptism, confirmation, etc.(that’s what happened in my case, anyway).

Your novel is fascinating. Personally, it seems better if the guy translated by his own free will. That way, you can add a whole chapter about the struggle of his conscience to become Catholic (which would not be as dramatic if he was simply forced). To throw a little intrigue into it, you can make his translation a secret, so no one, not even his future wife, knows about it. ooooo! aaaaaa! For good material on reasons why an Orthodox should come into communion with Rome, read Soloviev. I don’t have any references on me at the moment, but perhaps a Soloviev fan will read this and give you some references.

Hope that’s given you some food for thought.

Blessings,
Marduk
 
mardukm said:
I seems obvious that forced conversions during WWII were done in the name of the State, not in the name of the Church. Forced “conversions” were done to facilitate the interests of the STATE. So the Catholic Church cannot be blamed in traditionally Catholic lands, and neither can the Russian Orthodox be blamed in traditionally Orthodox lands.
/QUOTE]

Brother Marduk, the Franciscans and other western Catholics who forcibly converted Serbs were clearly doing so in the name of the Catholic Church. Let’s not try to get around that. Sure, the State was involved; that doesn’t mean the Church wasn’t involved also. Church and State have cooperated many times over history, in the east and in the west, I’m sure you know that.
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Alethiaphile said:
mardukm;4464110:
I seems obvious that forced conversions during WWII were done in the name of the State, not in the name of the Church. Forced “conversions” were done to facilitate the interests of the STATE. So the Catholic Church cannot be blamed in traditionally Catholic lands, and neither can the Russian Orthodox be blamed in traditionally Orthodox lands.
/QUOTE]

Brother Marduk, the Franciscans and other western Catholics who forcibly converted Serbs were clearly doing so in the name of the Catholic Church. Let’s not try to get around that. Sure, the State was involved; that doesn’t mean the Church wasn’t involved also. Church and State have cooperated many times over history, in the east and in the west, I’m sure you know that.
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They ceased being practical catholics the moment they decided to participate in forced conversion.
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Alethiaphile said:
Brother Marduk, the Franciscans and other western Catholics who forcibly converted Serbs were clearly doing so in the name of the Catholic Church. Let’s not try to get around that. Sure, the State was involved; that doesn’t mean the Church wasn’t involved also. Church and State have cooperated many times over history, in the east and in the west, I’m sure you know that.
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No, it was done out of the state. The Church prohibits this practice, they were not serving the Church.

The Church has condemned this practice. By attempting to forcibly convert somebody, you are excommunicated. This is the greatest punishment the Church can place on a soul. It’s clear that Church has no interest in forcibly converting, which She find to be morally reprehensible.

That means that by focibly converting you are acting AGAINST the Church not for it. The only reason that they would break this rule is in order to advance the interests of the Ustasha, who desired to ethnically cleans their lands. Forced conversion was one way of cleansing, since the only real difference between Serbs and Croats, beyond dialect and accent, is religion.

They used forced conversion as a tool to advance state interests, not Church interests. Their actions reduced our faith to a mere cultural identity, a great sacrelig.
 
Know things have changed . I’ m orthodox and I’ m married with a catholic woman. God blessed us with a beautifull baby. We had no problem to marry. things have changed in the last century. Once after the scisma of 1054 catholic and orthodox called each others eretics. Know after Pope Giovanni 23rd, and Athenagora the second they took away the eresia term between each other and slowly specialy with Giovanni Paul the second and Benedict XVI we have done big steps to the union of Catholics and Orthodoxes. The two confessions are very similar almost the same. The sacraments are the same. the liturgy has the same minning and the saint comunion has the same minning. We call each others brothers Know. God bless you
 
Zuvelekis said:
Know things have changed . I’ m orthodox and I’ m married with a catholic woman. God blessed us with a beautifull baby. We had no problem to marry. things have changed in the last century. Once after the scisma of 1054 catholic and orthodox called each others eretics. Know after Pope Giovanni 23rd, and Athenagora the second they took away the eresia term between each other and slowly specialy with Giovanni Paul the second and Benedict XVI we have done big steps to the union of Catholics and Orthodoxes. The two confessions are very similar almost the same. The sacraments are the same. the liturgy has the same minning and the saint comunion has the same minning. We call each others brothers Know. God bless you
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The Greek orthodox under the roman educated ecumenical patriarch think like this only ,not the other orthodox christians bodys that have there own patriarchs after all the ecumenical patriarch isn’t a eastern orthodox pope sorry to disappoint your dream ,dream on zuvelekis…:eek: 🤷 😃
 
you are write orthodox haven’t a pope but Jesus is one and all Christians must love each others as brothers and sisters. In Triest my city in Italy leave all different kind of confessions and we leave in peace all together. I think changes can start also from “small” christians as me everyne can do something for what God wants and I’ m sure Jesus soffers for this splits.“Love each other as I loved you” is written. Sorry for my english.By
 
My brother, Roman Catholic, had no problem marrying his wife in her church: the Russian Orthodox Church. He just had to speak with the Russian Orthodox priest and show his sacramental records proving his baptism, etc… Since the sacraments were (are) valid, he was able to marry without being rebaptised, etc… .

Jean
 
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