Orthodox to Eastern Catholic?

[dcointin]

I am Orthodox, and was curious about some issues if one were to join the Catholic Church.

What exactly would I be asked to confess dogmatically, specifically in regards to issues that the Orthodox object to such as the Immaculate Conception, Papal Infallibility, Purgatory, Indulgences, the Filioque, etc.? Would it allow an eastern understanding of these, as much as is possible, or the exact promulgation found in sources such as the Catechism of the Catholic Church? I’ve read through this forum and found that some Eastern Catholics hold to a much more Orthodox understanding that what I find in the CCC, and it’s led to some confusion. Also, how would one be received, by confession of faith, or chrismation?

Thank you for your time!

 

[Melvin]

If you actually believe the Orthodox Faith, why would you seek to become Catholic? Marriage?

As a devout Roman Catholic, you must believe all that the Church teaches. That includes all of those issues you noted. There is some latitude, however, if you convert to Eastern Catholicism, which is, as I understand, where Orthodox converts are requested to join the Catholic communion. I am aware (having attended an Eastern Rite Catholic Church for a while) that some or most of the Eastern Rite Churches still recite the Creed in its original form, without the filioque, and are allowed to maintain their own Tradition.

Anyway, find an Eastern Catholic priest corresponding to your Orthodox jurisdiction, if you can, and talk to him about your concerns. Especially if the priest is bi-liturgical (Roman and Eastern), he will be able to give you a good understanding of the process and the differences and obligations concerning the confessions.

God bless you,

Melvin

 

[Phillip_Rolfes]

I am Orthodox, and was curious about some issues if one were to join the Catholic Church.

What exactly would I be asked to confess dogmatically, specifically in regards to issues that the Orthodox object to such as the Immaculate Conception, Papal Infallibility, Purgatory, Indulgences, the Filioque, etc.? Would it allow an eastern understanding of these, as much as is possible, or the exact promulgation found in sources such as the Catechism of the Catholic Church? I’ve read through this forum and found that some Eastern Catholics hold to a much more Orthodox understanding that what I find in the CCC, and it’s led to some confusion. Also, how would one be received, by confession of faith, or chrismation?

Thank you for your time!

You are not only permitted, but encouraged and expected to have an Eastern understanding of the Western “dogmas.” For many, this understanding amounts to saying, “Well that’s a nice theological opinion, but that’s not the tradition that comes to me from the Greek Fathers.”

I’m not sure, but I think in order to be received you would simply make a public profession of faith. You certainly wouldn’t be re-baptized or re-chrismated.

 

[Phillip_Rolfes]

I would not recommend speaking with a bi-ritual priest. They tend to be Roman Catholic who are simply allowed to celebrate the Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom at times. I would recommend speaking to a Melkite or perhaps Romanian Catholic priest. Actually, I’d recommend talking to either Fr. Maximos or Fr. Abbot Nicholas at Holy Resurrection Monastery (hrmonline.org); they’ll probably give you the best possible guidance you could ask for.

 

[bkovacs]

You are not only permitted, but encouraged and expected to have an Eastern understanding of the Western “dogmas.” For many, this understanding amounts to saying, “Well that’s a nice theological opinion, but that’s not the tradition that comes to me from the Greek Fathers.”

I’m not sure, but I think in order to be received you would simply make a public profession of faith. You certainly wouldn’t be re-baptized or re-chrismated.

I have always wondered why going from Catholic to Orthodox you need to be re-chrismated and re-tought everything, rather than just a profession, like the other way around. I can understand being a former Protestant, but Catholic.

 

[crazzeto]

I have always wondered why going from Catholic to Orthodox you need to be re-chrismated and re-tought everything, rather than just a profession, like the other way around. I can understand being a former Protestant, but Catholic.

Bad blood…

 

[Phillip_Rolfes]

Bad blood…

I see we do agree on something!

 

[Lancer]

I am Orthodox, and was curious about some issues if one were to join the Catholic Church.

What exactly would I be asked to confess dogmatically, specifically in regards to issues that the Orthodox object to such as the Immaculate Conception, Papal Infallibility, Purgatory, Indulgences, the Filioque, etc.? Would it allow an eastern understanding of these, as much as is possible, or the exact promulgation found in sources such as the Catechism of the Catholic Church? I’ve read through this forum and found that** some Eastern Catholics hold to a much more Orthodox understanding that what I find in the CCC,** and it’s led to some confusion. Also, how would one be received, by confession of faith, or chrismation?

Thank you for your time!

First, I am not sure what you mean by “…much more Orthodox understanding…”, but this is what John Paul II wrote in his Apostolic Letter introducing the*** Catechism Of The Catholic Chruch (2nd Edition)***…my point being that “…the CCC is the norm…”…not the opinions in the forums…as good as they may be/often are…they are simply, not the “norm”…

scborromeo.org/mobileccc/aposcons.htm3. The Doctrinal Value of the Text

The Catechism of the Catholic Church, which I approved 25 June last and the publication of which** I today order by virtue of my Apostolic Authority**, is a statement of the Church’s faith and of catholic doctrine, attested to or illumined by Sacred Scripture, the Apostolic Tradition and the Church’s Magisterium. I declare it to be a sure norm for teaching the faith and thus a valid and legitimate instrument for ecclesial communion.

Second, I would strognly recommed that you listen one or both of these Catholic Radio Q&A shows…with a former Orthodox Christian…who converted to the Latin (Roman) Catholic faith:

James Likoudis The Eastern Orthodox Church (Sept 8,1999)
javascriptopUp(‘http://www.catholic.com/radio/event.php?calendar=1&category=&event=1076&date=1999-09-08’,‘435’,‘485’);

and/or

James Likoudis Eastern Orthodoxies (Dec 9,2009)
javascriptopUp(‘http://www.catholic.com/radio/event.php?calendar=1&category=&event=6025&date=2009-12-09’,‘435’,‘485’);

Hope that this is helpful…and God bless and guide you on your journey…

Pax Christi
P.S. not sure how the “happy faces” got into the copied links…if they fail to link…you can go to the Radio Archives and type the name James Likoudis.

 

[dcointin]

If you actually believe the Orthodox Faith, why would you seek to become Catholic? Marriage?

Actually yes, that’s what prompted this question. My girlfriend is Catholic, and would strongly prefer to have her uncle who is a priest marry us. As an Orthodox, I would not be allowed to be married in a Catholic wedding, the wedding would have to be Orthodox. It also raises the eventual question of how to raise our children. Eastern Catholic is a tempting alternative, but I would have to reconcile my beliefs with that the Catholic Church would expect me to confess. I consider myself open minded and close in faith to the Catholic Church, so I thought it deserved a good study.

 

[dcointin]

Bad blood…

I recently asked my priest about this, and he said that the practice on receiving Catholics into the Orthodox Church varies depending on the tradition. The Greek and Antiochian practice is to rechrismate. Since the confirmation/chrismation was done by a priest or bishop outside of the Orthodox communion, it is considered invalid (for lack of a better word). The Slavic tradition however is to accept their orders as ‘valid’ and receive them by confession of faith. He told me of an example he heard of where a Catholic priest was received into the Orthodox priesthood, and all that was required was again a confession of the Nicene Creed without the filioque, and he was then considered an Orthodox priest.

 

[Diak]

am Orthodox, and was curious about some issues if one were to join the Catholic Church.

What exactly would I be asked to confess dogmatically, specifically in regards to issues that the Orthodox object to such as the Immaculate Conception, Papal Infallibility, Purgatory, Indulgences, the Filioque, etc.? Would it allow an eastern understanding of these, as much as is possible, or the exact promulgation found in sources such as the Catechism of the Catholic Church? I’ve read through this forum and found that some Eastern Catholics hold to a much more Orthodox understanding that what I find in the CCC, and it’s led to some confusion. Also, how would one be received, by confession of faith, or chrismation?

Thank you for your time!

You would be received by sacramental confession (not that being Orthodox is sinful, but most adults need it anyway) and profession of faith. That’s it. And it is absolutely allowed to have an Eastern understanding of dogma to be Eastern Catholic (c.f. Orientale Lumen, Unitatis Redintegratio, Orientalium Ecclesiarum, etc.)

 

[Aramis]

I am Orthodox, and was curious about some issues if one were to join the Catholic Church.

What exactly would I be asked to confess dogmatically, specifically in regards to issues that the Orthodox object to such as the Immaculate Conception, Papal Infallibility, Purgatory, Indulgences, the Filioque, etc.? Would it allow an eastern understanding of these, as much as is possible, or the exact promulgation found in sources such as the Catechism of the Catholic Church? I’ve read through this forum and found that some Eastern Catholics hold to a much more Orthodox understanding that what I find in the CCC, and it’s led to some confusion. Also, how would one be received, by confession of faith, or chrismation?

Thank you for your time!

If you’re Orthodox, then you are properly received into the closest ethnic Byzantine Rite Church not the Roman Church, even if received in a Roman Parish. If you were properly initiated, and have the documentation, you’ll be received by confession alone.

You are expected to accept the infallibility of the magisterium acting as a whole, and of papal declarations on faith or morals. This includes accepting the Immaculate Conception, that the filioque in Latin is not heretical, and that puragatory exists per it’s dogmatic definition of a place or state where one is not yet admitted to heaven and is not yet condemned to hell.

If you’re a cleric, things get stricter, but, as a layman of the Orthodox Church (Oriental or Eastern), you need not even make formal profession of faith to be part of a Catholic Parish. Canon law permits those Orthodox who desire to do so to participate in the Catholic Churches. Amongst the Melkites, this is pretty common. Less so in the Slavic churches, simply because many of the Slavic Orthodox Churches openly forbid communing of or with Catholics.

 

[mardukm]

Dear brother dcointin,

I am Orthodox, and was curious about some issues if one were to join the Catholic Church.

What exactly would I be asked to confess dogmatically, specifically in regards to issues that the Orthodox object to such as the Immaculate Conception, Papal Infallibility, Purgatory, Indulgences, the Filioque, etc.? Would it allow an eastern understanding of these, as much as is possible, or the exact promulgation found in sources such as the Catechism of the Catholic Church? I’ve read through this forum and found that some Eastern Catholics hold to a much more Orthodox understanding that what I find in the CCC, and it’s led to some confusion. Also, how would one be received, by confession of faith, or chrismation?

Thank you for your time!

I came into Catholic Communion from Oriental Orthodoxy about 5 years ago. I would like to share with you my own experience and how I have reconciled Catholic teachings to my OO mindset. Unfortunately, I don’t have time right now. Perhaps you would be interested to read about my journey: forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=202141. It’s not a complete account, and I have elaborated over the years when certain topics required it.

When I have more time, perhaps next week, I hope to engage in this thread more and provide some perspectives that may help you.

For now, I would like you to congratulate you for actually trying to find out about the Catholic Faith instead of becoming Catholic just for the sake of marriage.

Abundant blessings,
Marduk

 

[angelic06]

Marduk,

I am pleased and grateful (as a cradle Latin) to have read your account of your entry into the fullness of the Catholic Church (for lack of a proper term which does not disparage the Oriental churches).

Paul R. Viola

 

[Hesychios]

I have always wondered why going from Catholic to Orthodox you need to be re-chrismated and re-tought everything, rather than just a profession, like the other way around. I can understand being a former Protestant, but Catholic.

I will make this as simple and brief as possible while trying not to offend, so it probably will not be as complete a response as you deserve but you should get the idea.

It is not bad blood.

Orthodox and Latin Catholics do not believe exactly the same things. :doh2:

Eastern Catholics can be anywhere in the middle (and if anyone disagrees with this statement they are welcome to speak up ). Some will believe exactly as a Latin Catholic, and some may know nothing except what Orthodox will teach. But they all (according to the church requirements) must accept that nothing Latin Catholics believe is wrong, even if they do not understand it and were never taught it in their parish.

To Orthodox, this is relativistic, and beyond that to commune with people who believe error is to endorse their beliefs. To be accepted as Orthodox then, one (even if an eastern Catholic) must be willing and able to repudiate the Latin Catholic dogmas that are not taught in Holy Orthodoxy.

Chrismation is an anointing, and may be (and sometimes is) repeated for Orthodox Christians. It is only in a Latin understanding that it can ‘never be repeated’. There is some possibility that I will take another Chrismation when I get back to the USA (a matter I will discuss this with my priest at that time), so it is not ever a bad thing, it is spiritual medicine one should not refuse.

The idea that newcomers to the church get a good education in the Faith from day one is a good one (even if it only serves as a ‘review’), and I think that the Catholic communion under the Pope is making a serious mistake if not doing this with Orthodox who come into their church. Most especially if they are forbidden to think that what Latin Catholics are taught is error, they should at least have a basic understanding of what Latin Catholics are taught so as to know what they are affirming.

 

[Hesychios]

Actually yes, that’s what prompted this question. My girlfriend is Catholic, and would strongly prefer to have her uncle who is a priest marry us. As an Orthodox, I would not be allowed to be married in a Catholic wedding, the wedding would have to be Orthodox. It also raises the eventual question of how to raise our children. Eastern Catholic is a tempting alternative, but I would have to reconcile my beliefs with that the Catholic Church would expect me to confess. I consider myself open minded and close in faith to the Catholic Church, so I thought it deserved a good study.

So really this is about her uncle. I can understand that as they have probably talked about him doing the family weddings since she was a little girl.

I have heard of weddings where both an Orthodox priest and a Catholic priest participated, but have not personally seen it so I don’t know how it works as a practical matter. I think that you should at least explore this possibility. Most Catholic priests of this day and age are very ecumenically minded and have a high regard for the eastern rites and would probably consider being involved in such a wedding a most memorable experience.

Mixed marriages between Orthodox and Catholics are common, and usually do not have to involve a conversion. My parish back in Chicago had several such families, one was actually a deacon in the Archdiocese of Chicago, and he raised his children in the Orthodox church.

 

[dvdjs]

I would not recommend speaking with a bi-ritual priest. They tend to be Roman Catholic who are simply allowed to celebrate the Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom at times. I would recommend speaking to a Melkite or perhaps Romanian Catholic priest

I would not recommend attaching any credence to PR’s recommendation, which is laced with unfounded generalities. There certainly are bi-ritual priests and priests of many Eastern churches worth speaking with. Talk to a priest who is accessible to you.

 

[Alveus_Lacuna]

My parish back in Chicago had several such families, one was actually a deacon in the Archdiocese of Chicago, and he raised his children in the Orthodox church.

I have been taught that ordination is impossible for those whose spouses are not Orthodox.

 

[Hesychios]

I have been taught that ordination is impossible for those whose spouses are not Orthodox.

In the example I have given, it is the deacon who is not Orthodox, the wife and children are Orthodox. The Latin Catholic bishop of Chicago didn’t have a problem with him raising his family as Orthodox. As I understand it, the wife is normally interviewed and has to agree, so the Catholic Archdiocese would have interviewed his Orthodox wife before deciding to proceed.

He was ordained in 2005. The children are older, one could be in college by now and the others in high school, so by my estimation his children were born and baptized into the Orthodox church (probably) well before he decided on his vocation as a deacon in his church. The wife is in charge of our cathedral catechetical instruction for children (usually on Sundays after liturgy). When the Latin Catholic deacon attends liturgy with the family he never receives, but his son was one of our best altar boys when I was there and the girls sang in the choir.

 

[dcointin]

Dear brother dcointin,

I came into Catholic Communion from Oriental Orthodoxy about 5 years ago. I would like to share with you my own experience and how I have reconciled Catholic teachings to my OO mindset. Unfortunately, I don’t have time right now. Perhaps you would be interested to read about my journey: forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=202141. It’s not a complete account, and I have elaborated over the years when certain topics required it.

When I have more time, perhaps next week, I hope to engage in this thread more and provide some perspectives that may help you.

For now, I would like you to congratulate you for actually trying to find out about the Catholic Faith instead of becoming Catholic just for the sake of marriage.

Abundant blessings,
Marduk

Very interesting, thank you! I admit that I had always assumed that Oriental and Eastern Orthodox Christians shared the same basic worldview, with exception to different emphases on the nature of Christ. Clearly this is not the case, and something I’ll need to study further.