Orthodox View Catolics

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Volodymyr

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ORTHODOX AT CATHOLIC ANSWERS SAJT

Some have asked why are Orthodox here at this sait - at least my view of Catolics is expressed below (please read to end)

The Consultation of Avtokefalnik Orthodox Church heads and representatives regarding the question of Catolicism and Orthodoxy occured in 1948 in Moscow. There was much agitation against Bishop of Rome Pij XII who wanted a “soft” peace with Fascism not punishing those who killed so many innocents during Great Fatherland War. Main participant of this consultation, interesting, was Protopriest Gavril Kostel’nik who helped organize Council of L’vov of 1946 which united Greko Catolics with Orthodoxy. However, during such consultation were several papers presenting all kinds of evils and mis deeds of Catolic Church from many years previously. These were pubished in Journal of Moskow Patriarchate to whose editor replied St. Bishop Luka (Luc) Bojno-Jasenetskij who himself was child of Orthodox father but Polish Catolic mother. ** I think his letter is attitude of most Orthodox people who visit this sait: **

"Using this occasion in order to reveal to you, as editor of this Journal, my own deep sorrow occasioned by articles and talks at this “Consultation” in summer by Archbishop Germogen. Why did he have to gather all the most fithy, most negative about Catolic Church? Is there nothing in her which is luminous and positive, are there not miracles and Saints? Certainly Catolic church is not only Pope and Cardinals, only Vatican, to whose politic we also feel negative? Does not Catolic church consist of millions of simple peope with pure and devote hearts? Why poison them with articles of Germogen creating evil and heavily sinful barriers between Christians. Why, why, why such a heavy sin - only to the joy of the enemies of the Church??

Below Icon of this Holy Saint Luka who will help us (EOS and RCS as you say) by his prayers to understand each other

http://www.sedmitza.ru/htdocs/database/imagebase/12119.jpg
 
Volodymyr said:
ORTHODOX AT CATHOLIC ANSWERS SAJT

Some have asked why are Orthodox here at this sait - at least my view of Catolics is expressed below (please read to end)

The Consultation of Avtokefalnik Orthodox Church heads and representatives regarding the question of Catolicism and Orthodoxy occured in 1948 in Moscow. There was much agitation against Bishop of Rome Pij XII who wanted a “soft” peace with Fascism not punishing those who killed so many innocents during Great Fatherland War. Main participant of this consultation, interesting, was Protopriest Gavril Kostel’nik who helped organize Council of L’vov of 1946 which united Greko Catolics with Orthodoxy. However, during such consultation were several papers presenting all kinds of evils and mis deeds of Catolic Church from many years previously. These were pubished in Journal of Moskow Patriarchate to whose editor replied St. Bishop Luka (Luc) Bojno-Jasenetskij who himself was child of Orthodox father but Polish Catolic mother. ** I think his letter is attitude of most Orthodox people who visit this sait: **

"Using this occasion in order to reveal to you, as editor of this Journal, my own deep sorrow occasioned by articles and talks at this “Consultation” in summer by Archbishop Germogen. Why did he have to gather all the most fithy, most negative about Catolic Church? Is there nothing in her which is luminous and positive, are there not miracles and Saints? Certainly Catolic church is not only Pope and Cardinals, only Vatican, to whose politic we also feel negative? Does not Catolic church consist of millions of simple peope with pure and devote hearts? Why poison them with articles of Germogen creating evil and heavily sinful barriers between Christians. Why, why, why such a heavy sin - only to the joy of the enemies of the Church??

Below Icon of this Holy Saint Luka who will help us (EOS and RCS as you say) by his prayers to understand each other

http://www.sedmitza.ru/htdocs/database/imagebase/12119.jpg
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Volodymyr,

Do you have anything more on this saint in English? I know that he is popular even in Greece, and have seen some things in Greek.

He was a surgeon by trade, and I have seen peer reviewed articles and doctoral dissertations in the medical field in the West that cite him as an authority. He was such a skilled surgeon that he was awarded the Lenin prize (he gave the money to charity). The communists continually harassed him, on how such an intelligent man could believe in God. “You are an accomplished surgeon,” they asked, “have you ever seen a soul in the body of any one of your patients?” “No,” he replied, “but neither have I seen compassion, love or joy, but I know that it is in the man.”

There is a short video clip of him on this:
youtube.com/watch?v=Gy5ZPaNbNLc
 
Since this post is polemic in nature and has nothing whatsoever to do with Eastern Catholicism, it should be moved to the non-Catholic Religions thread.
FDRLB
 
Even non-Christian historians have agreed that the so-called “Council of L’vov” was nothing more than a handful of Greek Catholic priests who were coerced into signing a false decree of Union with the Moscow Patriarchate, who by that time had succombed to the Sergian capitulations and were essentially an arm of the Soviet Government ( don’t forget that the current Patriarch Alexei was known by the KGB as “Agent Drozdov”).

I would strongly urge those interested in the full and objective history consult Fr. Serge Keleher’s Passion and Resurrection to find the actual historical details, and not rely on Soviet polemic and propaganda.

Bringing up the memory of Kostelnik not only does not help Catholic-Orthodox relations, but hurts them greatly. It also continues to show how the Moscow Patriarchate still relies on its very pro-Soviet heritage to further its agenda. Let those who have ears, hear.

Slava Bohu, Slava Ukraina. Ne Moskovska.
FDRLB
 
And its obvious that Kostelnik’s false union was just that - false, else the entire UGCC would be accepted as in communion with the Moscow Patriarchate. We all know that is not the case.

Once again I am sorry that the resurrection of our UGCC from the catacombs causes great distress and consternation for those who may have benefitted materially from our suppression, but we are still breathing. Our brothers in the Ukrainian Orthodox Churches (Kyivan Patriarchate and Avtokephaly) work ever closer with us towards a unified Church of Kyiv.

St. Luka is an interesting figure. Another is St. Isidore of New Gethsamene Hermitage, the spiritual father of St. Pavel Florensky. He also saw no compelling reason why Catholics and Orthodox should not come closer.
FDRLB
 
Diak said:
Even non-Christian historians have agreed that the so-called “Council of L’vov” was nothing more than a handful of Greek Catholic priests who were coerced into signing a false decree of Union with the Moscow Patriarchate, who by that time had succombed to the Sergian capitulations and were essentially an arm of the Soviet Government ( don’t forget that the current Patriarch Alexei was known by the KGB as “Agent Drozdov”).

I would strongly urge those interested in the full and objective history consult Fr. Serge Keleher’s Passion and Resurrection to find the actual historical details, and not rely on Soviet polemic and propaganda.

Bringing up the memory of Kostelnik not only does not help Catholic-Orthodox relations, but hurts them greatly. It also continues to show how the Moscow Patriarchate still relies on its very pro-Soviet heritage to further its agenda. Let those who have ears, hear.

Slava Bohu, Slava Ukraina. Ne Moskovska.
FDRLB
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And the Vatican of course has never had an “agenda.”
 
I thought that the rules state that threads concerning the Eastern Orthodox should be in the Non-Catholic section of CAF. Did something change?
 
Diak said:
Slava Bohu, Slava Ukraina. Ne Moskovska.
FDRLB
Click to expand...
Мені шкода! Я думаю що Ви бажаете казати “Cлава Богу що я не москаль!” Cлава Уркаїні!
 
East_and_West said:
Of course the Vatican has an agenda. The Vatican wants to spread the Gospel and bring everyone into the fold of the Catholic Church.
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And of those who already have the Gospel and who confess the Creed of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Chruch?
 
Isa_Almisry said:
And of those who already have the Gospel and who confess the Creed of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Chruch?
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Which creed do you mean? The oldest one? The Apostles Creed? The one Composed at Nicea? The one Composed at Constantinople? Which one?
And which people are you talking about? The only people i know who currently comfess the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Faith, are those in comunion with Rome. We would not need to evangelize them. I think the Eastern Orthodox are really close to professing this faith but have been polluted by anti-Latin sentiments over the last few centuries. However, the EO communion is a great communion and I am sure will shake this off eventually. In the mean time, we have every responsibility to lead them back to the truth.
 
East_and_West said:
Which creed do you mean? The oldest one? The Apostles Creed? The one Composed at Nicea? The one Composed at Constantinople? Which one?
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The composed at Nicea, on which the Fathers of Constaninople I set their seal and which all the Fathers of the Ecumenical Councils from Ephesus on declared to be the Faith that they adhered to.
And which people are you talking about? The only people i know who currently comfess the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Faith, are those in comunion with Rome.
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So you haven’t been to an Orthodox Church? That Creed is said every Sunday.
We would not need to evangelize them. I think the Eastern Orthodox are really close to professing this faith but have been polluted by anti-Latin sentiments
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like rejecting the innovation of filioque? That’s not anti-Latin, just pro-Orthodoxy.
]over the last few centuries. However, the EO communion is a great communion and I am sure will shake this off eventually. In the mean time, we have every responsibility to lead them back to the truth.
Click to expand...
which we haven’t left.
 
East_and_West said:
I thought that the rules state that threads concerning the Eastern Orthodox should be in the Non-Catholic section of CAF. Did something change?
Click to expand...
Since many threads can fit under a variety of forums (e.g., a thread about priests could legitimately be placed in Church News, Moral Theology, Apologetics, Non-Catholic Religions, Eastern Catholicism, Spirituality, or Liturgy & Sacraments, depending on the context), if a thread could legitimately be placed within a particular forum, it will remain in its original forum. If it obviously belongs somewhere else (e.g., a priest thread is specifically about a current news issue), then it may be moved to a more appropriate forum.

This thread’s topic is an individual’s view of Eastern Catholicism compared to the Russian Orthodox church’s opinion of Eastern Catholicism, so it would not appropriately belong in Non-Catholic Religions. Non-Catholic religions would be appropriate for threads about Russian Orthodoxy. Since it does fit under the topics of discussion in the Eastern Catholicism forum, it will remain here with the understanding that it will receive an Eastern Catholic response. A Roman Catholic response would be received in Apologetics.

The way to bring concerns to my attention over the appropriateness of a thread for the Eastern Catholicism forum is through a PM or a post report. The moderators very much appreciate these reports from participants because they make our job easier and contribute to a pleasant and charitable atmosphere in the Catholic Answers Forums.

If anyone has any further questions, comments or concerns, please feel free to write to me privately.

May God Bless You Abundantly,
Catherine Grant
Eastern Catholicism Moderator
 
marlo said:
wow,this is out of topic,but look at the saint fingers,its not the byzantine fashion of the sign of the cross. Its really convincing that the Eastern Orthodox did not 100% preserved tradition as they claim. The claim of Old believers that this kind of sign of the cross is older and is more convincing.
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No, it’s on topic. Showing knowledge, or lack thereof.

He’s making the sign of the cross in the posture used by the clergy in blessing the CONGREGATION, not themselves, in which the fingers are placed in the shape of the Greek letters “IC XC” i.e. “IHCOYC XPICTOC” i.e. “Jesus Christ,” so the congregation is truly blessed “in the Name of the Lord.” You will see it in ANY bishop’s icon, and most of priests. The posture is discussed at least as early as the EP Germanos, who oppposed the Iconoclasts. And of course, can be seen in icons.

I understand that the clergy in the West used to use the same posture, but the pope of Rome forbad it, arrogating it to himself alone to use for his “Apostolic Blessing.”

Btw, you did know that according to documents of your church, e.g. CE, you in the West used to cross yourselves like us, until you changed after the 13th century, no?
 
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