Orthodox Western Rite

  • Thread starter Thread starter Peter_Mogila
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Further to Fr Fenton’s very informative post, the Western Orthodox under ROCOR have published a stations of the Cross and also a scriptural Rosary that I particularly like.

The Lancelot Andrewes Press which is Western Orthodox have published a calendar of Saints and also an Orthodox version of the Book of Common Prayer that lists post Schism Roman Catholic saints and even Anglicans like “Blessed William Laud” and they indicate that these are venerated privately by Western Orthodox and could possibly be honoured publicly by permission of the Local Bishop.

Alex
 
Fr Fenton:

I watched quite a bit of the video and your liturgy is beautiful. It reminds me in many ways of the EF of the Latin Liturgy. Many years.
 
Father, Bless.
frfenton said:
I hope this information is helpful.

Asking your prayers,

Fr John W Fenton
Click to expand...
Welcome to CAF and the EC section! 👍
Thanks so much for your responses to Rawb’s post and mine. I hope you’ll continue to participate in this and other threads here.

I wasn’t able to locate anything about Western Rite when I started from the home page of the Antiochian Orthodox Christian Archdiocese of North America (going by your signature :)) and various parts of the site. After googling the combination of that and Western Rite I found Western Rite which I now see is located under “Departments”, and also found Find a Western Rite Parish Near You.

I keep hoping we will see the Anglican Use come to a Catholic Church remotely near where I live. I still return from time to time to my well worn *Book of Common Prayer *from my childhood growing up in the Episcopal Church in the 1950s. The General Confession in particular I love. This language never seemed strange to me as a child. We knew the language we used with God was of a different character from the language we used elsewhere. 🙂
ALMIGHTY and most merciful Father;
We have erred, and strayed from thy ways like lost sheep.
We have followed too much the devices and desires of our own hearts.
We have offended against thy holy laws.
We have left undone those things which we ought to have done;
And we have done those things which we ought not to have done;
And there is no health in us.
But thou, O Lord, have mercy upon us, miserable offenders.
Spare thou them, O God, who confess their faults.
Restore thou those who are penitent; According to thy promises declared unto mankind in Christ Jesus our Lord.
And grant, O most merciful Father, for his sake; That we may hereafter live a godly, righteous, and sober life, To the glory of thy holy Name. Amen.
Click to expand...
You and your parish are in my unworthy prayers. Please pray for me and my very tiny Russian Greek Catholic parish.
 
Rawb said:
Father, Bless,

I always had a few questions about the Western Rite that I’d be curious to get ‘confirmation’ on.
  1. The Western Rite always uses leavened bread, yes?
  2. The Western Rite prays the Stations of the Cross? Do you use the ‘Stabat Mater’ hymn?
  3. How different is the fasting schedules between the Eastern and Western Orthodox?
  4. Do you kneel in the Western Rite?
  5. I’m assuming it goes without saying that infants are Baptized, Communed, and Chrismated?
  6. Westerners do not venerate post-Schism Saints, do they?
Thank you, Father!
Click to expand...
The Western Orthodox Mass is much like the Anglican (Sarum) with an added explicit epiklesis. (Antiochian Orthodox Church)

gwjolly.org/liturgy/index.shtml

antiochian.org/sites/antiochian.org/files/wrv_history.pdf
 
twf said:
Would it be fair to say that this Western Orthodox mass is more akin to the Anglican Use Mass in the Catholic Church than the EF Roman Rite?
Click to expand...
I think there actually are two forms of the Western Rite in use. One is based on the Tridentine mass and the other is based on the Anglican mass.
 
twf said:
Would it be fair to say that this Western Orthodox mass is more akin to the Anglican Use Mass in the Catholic Church than the EF Roman Rite?
Click to expand...
The Anglican Use (Catholic) worship is the Book of Divine Worship that is a combination of the Sarum Use, English Missal, Book of Common Prayer, and Roman Missal 1973 (Novus Ordo). The Sarum Use came from the Roman Rite but with Anglo-Saxon, Gallican, and Celtic elements, and predates the 1570 to 1962 Missale Romanum.

Western Rite Vicatiate (Orthodox) Mass (Liturgia Missae Orthodoxo-Catholicae Occidentalis) was first published in 1871 London (Overbeck’s Mass in Latin and English), derived from Missale Romanum, which is like the Extraordinary Form.

Overbeck: “not that of the Prayer Book, but the revised Roman or Sarum Mass”.

allmercifulsavior.com/Liturgy/Different.htm

Differences from Missale Romanum:

(1) The kneeling down, worshipping, and elevation of the elements after the words of institution have been recited, is abolished.
The Eastern Church generally believes that the consecration and transubstantiation of the elements only takes place at the Invocation (epiclesis) of the Holy Ghost. The before-mentioned Elevation was introduced after the great schism, about the twelfth century.

(2) The Epiclesis is interpolated into the prayer following: “Supplices te rogamus”.

(3) Leavened bread is used. As the Orthodox Western Church advocates the Communion under both kinds, and the preservation of the consecrated wine for a length of time is difficult, the Eastern use of saturating the consecrated bread with the consecrated wine and then drying it, is highly expedient and commendable. Wafer-bread is hardly fit for this process.

(4) The Filioque is removed from the Creed.
 
frfenton said:
Hi All,

Just thought I’d comment since I saw a reference to the video of the Orthodox parish I serve.

There are about 40 Western Rite Orthodox parishes in the U.S. 24 are in the Antiochian Orthodox Christian Archdiocese of North America; the rest are in the Russian Church Outside of Russia. In addition, there are an undetermined number of Eastern Rite Orthodox priests who have been given the blessing by their bishop to celebrate occasionally the Western Rite mass.

While the Western Rite is an accommodation to Anglicans, it is more than that. The Western Rite is a witness that Orthodoxy is not merely Byzantine or Slavic; i.e., tied to only one or a few cultural expressions. (The same could be said of Eastern Rite Catholicism as it relates to the Catholicism.)

The restoration of the Western Rite in the Orthodox Church begins with a former Lutheran, and drew heavily upon Old Catholic churches. The parish I serve is mostly comprised of former Lutherans.

Asking your prayers,

Fr John W Fenton
Priest, Holy Incarnation Orthodox Church
Assistant to the Vicar General of the Western Rite Vicariate (Antiochian)
Click to expand...
Father Bless,

does the holy Mystery of marriage follow the same discipline as it does with the Eastern way, with a priest being required to be present, or as in the Roman faith, where a deacon could preside

Thank you Father
 
Alexander_Roman said:
The Lancelot Andrewes Press which is Western Orthodox have published a calendar of Saints and also an Orthodox version of the Book of Common Prayer that lists post Schism Roman Catholic saints and even Anglicans like “Blessed William Laud” and they indicate that these are venerated privately by Western Orthodox and could possibly be honoured publicly by permission of the Local Bishop.
Click to expand...
Lancelot Andrewes Press, which operates out of St Mark’s Orthodox Church in Denver (a thriving Western Rite parish) offers many fine resources of high quality. Their market includes not only Western Rite Orthodox, but also traditional Anglicans and others interested in traditional English liturgical resources. As such, not everything they sell is authorized for use in the Western Rite Vicariate of the Antiochian Archdiocese. The revised BCP and the revised American Missal, while very attractive and usable, are among these items not authorized for use in Antiochian Vicariate parishes.

With this proviso, I commend Lancelot Andrewes Press to those interested in the various books, icons, and other materials that they offer.

Fr John W Fenton
Priest, Holy Incarnation Orthodox Church
Assistant to the Vicar General, Western Rite Vicariate (Antiochian)
 
twf said:
Would it be fair to say that this Western Orthodox mass is more akin to the Anglican Use Mass in the Catholic Church than the EF Roman Rite?
Click to expand...
There are two rites or uses authorized for use in the Western Rite Vicariate of the Antiochian Archdiocese; and several more in the Western Rite Vicariate of the Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia. Among these is what is called the “Rite of St Tikhon,” which would be closer to the Anglican Use Masses I’ve seen discussed elsewhere. The other predominate rite or use is called the “Rite of St Gregory,” which mirrors closely the Extraordinary Form.

Fr John W Fenton
 
Peter_Mogila said:
Is the one in this video more Anglican-like?
Click to expand...
Peter, the video shows the Easter Sunday Mass at Holy Incarnation Orthodox Church, which uses the “Rite of St Gregory” exclusively. This “Rite of St Gregory” is the Tridentine Mass prior to 1955 with these exceptions:
  • Everything is in English
  • The Patriarch of Antioch is commemorated in the Canon with the Ordinary
  • A descending epiclesis is inserted in the Canon
  • Approved hymns (both pre-schism and post-schism) augment the chants (e.g., before the Introit, after the Offertorium, after the Communio, and during the Last Gospel).
Fr John W Fenton
 
Vico said:
The Anglican Use (Catholic) worship is the Book of Divine Worship that is a combination of the Sarum Use, English Missal, Book of Common Prayer, and Roman Missal 1973 (Novus Ordo). The Sarum Use came from the Roman Rite but with Anglo-Saxon, Gallican, and Celtic elements, and predates the 1570 to 1962 Missale Romanum.

Western Rite Vicatiate (Orthodox) Mass (Liturgia Missae Orthodoxo-Catholicae Occidentalis) was first published in 1871 London (Overbeck’s Mass in Latin and English), derived from Missale Romanum, which is like the Extraordinary Form.

Overbeck: “not that of the Prayer Book, but the revised Roman or Sarum Mass”.

allmercifulsavior.com/Liturgy/Different.htm

Differences from Missale Romanum:

(1) The kneeling down, worshipping, and elevation of the elements after the words of institution have been recited, is abolished.
The Eastern Church generally believes that the consecration and transubstantiation of the elements only takes place at the Invocation (epiclesis) of the Holy Ghost. The before-mentioned Elevation was introduced after the great schism, about the twelfth century.

(2) The Epiclesis is interpolated into the prayer following: “Supplices te rogamus”.

(3) Leavened bread is used. As the Orthodox Western Church advocates the Communion under both kinds, and the preservation of the consecrated wine for a length of time is difficult, the Eastern use of saturating the consecrated bread with the consecrated wine and then drying it, is highly expedient and commendable. Wafer-bread is hardly fit for this process.

(4) The Filioque is removed from the Creed.
Click to expand...
Vico,

Thanks for adding these notes. However, #1 is not in force in the Western Rite Vicariate (Antiochian). While Overbeck’s submission to the Holy Synod of Moscow is helpful, the Holy Synod of Antioch approved the Tridentine Mass with the items you mentioned in #2-4.

Fr John W Fenton
 
Montalo said:
Father Bless,

does the holy Mystery of marriage follow the same discipline as it does with the Eastern way, with a priest being required to be present, or as in the Roman faith, where a deacon could preside

Thank you Father
Click to expand...
Montalo,

Since the Western Rite normally assumes the Nuptial Mass, a priest presides at the Sacrament of Holy Matrimony.

Fr John W Fenton
 
frfenton said:
There are two rites or uses authorized for use in the Western Rite Vicariate of the Antiochian Archdiocese; and several more in the Western Rite Vicariate of the Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia. Among these is what is called the “Rite of St Tikhon,” which would be closer to the Anglican Use Masses I’ve seen discussed elsewhere. The other predominate rite or use is called the “Rite of St Gregory,” which mirrors closely the Extraordinary Form.

Fr John W Fenton
Click to expand...
The one I posted on from Overbeck is the Rite of St. Gregory (I believe). Overbeck was a Catholic that became Luthern and then Orthodox.

Read under Liturgy at this link. I did not know there were so many variants.

allmercifulsavior.com/Liturgy/Orthodoxwiki.html
  1. Anglican rite under the title Liturgy of St. Tikhon of Moscow
    *2. Liturgy of St. Gregory the Great. *
  2. Anglican form found in the Book of Common Prayer.
ROCOR:
4. Roman rite in its Tridentine version (Christminster, Rhode Island)
5. Roman rite in an older version called the Sarum (St. Petroc’s, Tasmania)
6. Anglican liturgy found principally in the Book of Common Prayer, with adaptations
7. Roman rite (in its older, Sarum version)
8. Gallican rite (in an edition which however differs from the Gallican rite of the ECOF)

Also has been used at times:
Mozarabic or Ambrosian Western liturgies
 
frfenton said:
Vico,

Thanks for adding these notes. However, #1 is not in force in the Western Rite Vicariate (Antiochian). While Overbeck’s submission to the Holy Synod of Moscow is helpful, the Holy Synod of Antioch approved the Tridentine Mass with the items you mentioned in #2-4.

Fr John W Fenton
Click to expand...
Very interesting that #1 is not enforced.
 
The Rite of St. Tikhon is essentially the Gregorian Roman Rite that interweaves a few elements from the English liturgical tradition.

The only differences are that the Rite of St. Tikhon includes the following:

Collect for Purity
Summary of the Law
Prayer for the Church
Confession/Absolution
Comfortable Words
Prayer of Consecration (the Canon)
Prayer of Humble Access

Otherwise it is identical to the Roman Rite.

In terms of the variable parts of the liturgy, the Collects used will often be those translated into “Prayer Book” English from the Latin originals, and occasionally the Scripture readings vary slightly.

It was based upon the American Missal in use by many Anglo-Catholic parishes. It is, in essence, a way of doing the ancient Roman Rite which preserves and honors those timeless elements of liturgical English that so many have come to treasure over the last 500 years, albeit “corrected” for use by Orthodox Christians.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top