Orthodoxy and the Papacy.

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wisdomseeker said:
tell me. is he talking about himself here? or is there other popes out there i dont know about? how many popes did we have then? was there other popes in his time? just curious.
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Yes, we don’t even know the context of that quote, nor did he give us some type of reference so we could read the entire thing in context.
 
Furthermore if we are going to discuss Roman “Innovations” may we discuss Orthodox changes in traditional doctrine.
  • Remarriages is allowed in the Orthodox Church
  • Divorce is allowed in the Orthodox Church
  • Contraception is allowed in the Orthodox Church
 
holdencaulfield said:
That is what I was attempting on doing. Showing quotes that show the Bishop of Rome as the leader of the Church from pre 1054
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Your quotes do not show the ulta-montanism of the current papal infallibility/supremacy dogma. 🤷
 
holdencaulfield said:
Furthermore if we are going to discuss Roman “Innovations” may we discuss Orthodox changes in traditional doctrine.
  • Remarriages is allowed in the Orthodox Church
  • Divorce is allowed in the Orthodox Church
  • Contraception is allowed in the Orthodox Church
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There are many threads about these subjects. Do a search–or start a new thread. Otherwise, stick to the original subject. Thank you.
 
“St. Nicholas was elected pope on April 22, 858. He soon became known for his charity and justice. When the powerful archbishop of Rheims wrongfully deposed the bishop of Soissons, Nicholas ordered him reinstated. Twice he excommunicated the archbishop of Ravenna for abusing his office. Nicholas also withstood the attempts of both the patriarch of Constantinople and the Byzantine emperor to encroach upon the rights of the papacy. Without question, he courageously displayed the virtues of charity and justice.”

:dancing: :dancing: :dancing:
 
Mickey said:
Your quotes do not show the ulta-montanism of the current papal infallibility/supremacy dogma. 🤷
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Define what the Papacy is and how it’s Infallible. I would imagine that you do not understand Papal Infallibility like 90% of the people on this forum including Catholics.
 
holdencaulfield said:
Define what the Papacy is and how it’s Infallible. I would imagine that you do not understand Papal Infallibility like 90% of the people on this forum including Catholics.
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If you do not know the definition, your best resource would probably be the CCC. Or perhaps you could read up on the first Vatican Council. I was a fairly knowlegeable Latin Catholic for over 38 years.

You know not of which you speak. :nope:
 
holdencaulfield said:
Furthermore if we are going to discuss Roman “Innovations” may we discuss Orthodox changes in traditional doctrine.
  • Remarriages is allowed in the Orthodox Church
  • Divorce is allowed in the Orthodox Church
  • Contraception is allowed in the Orthodox Church
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Does this mean then, that there is no hope for any reunion between the two Churches?
 
Mickey said:
I was a fairly knowlegeable Latin Catholic for over 38 years.
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Which is why I still don’t understand why you left the Church. Oh well. Must be one of those eastern “mysteries”. Just kidding. You know I am playing.
 
holdencaulfield said:
Furthermore if we are going to discuss Roman “Innovations” may we discuss Orthodox changes in traditional doctrine.
  • Remarriages is allowed in the Orthodox Church
  • Divorce is allowed in the Orthodox Church
  • Contraception is allowed in the Orthodox Church
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With reference to the question of innovations and divorce and remarriage, the Catholic Church has introduced one of the most incredible innovations since Vatican II, the easy to get marriage annulment. Marriage annulments are granted on the basis of the most trivial of reasons. Take a look at the marriage annulment statistics in the USA and tell me what you make of these statistics.
 
Mickey said:
If you do not know the definition, your best resource would probably be the CCC. Or perhaps you could read up on the first Vatican Council. I was a fairly knowlegeable Latin Catholic for over 38 years.

You know not of which you speak. :nope:
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Papal Infallibility does not mean that the Pope can do whatever he wants. We know that the Church can speak Infallibly through Pope alone, or through the Pope and the Ecumenical Councils. The Pope has only twice spoken Infallibly to prevent heresy. The Pope cannot contradict prior Tradition.
 
East_and_West said:
Which is why I still don’t understand why you left the Church.
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Think about it. 😃
East_and_West said:
Oh well. Must be one of those eastern “mysteries”. Just kidding. You know I am playing.
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Yes. I know. You are aware how I feel. But sometimes I must reiterate to others.

I greatly respect the Latin/Eastern Catholic Church. I am in agreement with much of Her theology. That of which I am not in agreement with, I vigorously debate, and it sometimes causes others to think that I hate the Western Church–that is far from the truth.

There are many differences to be sure.
But there are many more similarities.

Peace to you my brother E& W!
 
Mickey said:
If you do not know the definition, your best resource would probably be the CCC. Or perhaps you could read up on the first Vatican Council. I was a fairly knowlegeable Latin Catholic for over 38 years.

You know not of which you speak. :nope:
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mickey do you consider yourself infalible? if not, why?
do you consider your patriarch infallible? if not, why not?
 
bobzills said:
The Tradition of the Church was to recite the creed without the filioque. Then the Pope contradicted this by accepting the introduction of the filioque into the creed.
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Did, he though. He never changed the Creed he made a new one. The original is the Nicene Creed, the new is the Nicene-Constantinoplian Creed.
 
holdencaulfield said:
Papal Infallibility does not mean that the Pope can do whatever he wants.
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I know.
holdencaulfield said:
We know that the Church can speak Infallibly through Pope alone, or through the Pope and the Ecumenical Councils.
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Can you show me any evidence in the first millenium where a Pope infallibly proclaimed dogma independent of an Ecumenical Council? Can you show me where such a concept was even possible?
holdencaulfield said:
The Pope cannot contradict prior Tradition.
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But can he invent new tradition?
 
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