Orthodoxy makes the most sence. protestantism is just man made division. the question is latin or eastern Church?

[AMDGtoo]

Maybe this document will help us since it does address ecumenism in the ancient churches:

vatican.va/edocs/ENG0221/_INDEX.HTM

 

[steve_b]

When NFP is practiced properly, it is a more effective contraception than condoms.

then why use condoms?
m:

Is that an infallible statement? Besides, the issue regarding condom use for extra-ordinary situations is still being studied by Rome.

reference?

 

[Mickey]

then why use condoms?

Uh–there are various circumstances where permission may be given for condom use. Personally, I know of a couple reasons–I’m sure there are more. One example may be that one of the spouses has AIDS.

It is an issue between the married couple and their spiritual father.

reference?

Already posted it. Read the thread.

 

[steve_b]

What do you think this means? Why was St Peter grieved the third time?

Simple. Peter was reminded about what he said in the upper room to Jesus, after Jesus told him that he (Peter) would deny Him.

It didn’t stop Jesus then, in the upper room at the last supper, from commanding Peter to be the one to strengthen and confirm his brothers (the apostles), AND now Jesus after His resurrection and before His ascension back to heaven is again singling Peter out from the rest, and commanding Peter to feed and rule Our Lord’s Church.
m:

Hence, we pray for your return to the fold of the Holy Orthodox Church.

I will not leave or divide from the see of Peter.

 

[Mickey]

Simple. Peter was reminded about what he said in the upper room to Jesus, after Jesus told him that he (Peter) would deny Him.

Wrong. Try again.

I will not leave or divide from the see of Peter.

Since St Peter would have been appalled at the idea of a supreme infallible Pope of Rome based on his apostolic ministry----you already have.

 

[steve_b]

Uh–there are various circumstances where permission may be given for condom use. Personally, I know of a couple reasons–I’m sure there are more. One example may be that one of the spouses has AIDS.

• the context of my response was NFP
• Condoms have not been shown to be fool proof in preventing or catching aids.
• therefore, giving someone permission to catch aids seems a bit reckless.

m:

Already posted it. Read the thread.

IOW you didn’t post it.

 

[Mickey]

Condoms have not been shown to be fool proof in preventing or catching aids.

There have been studies that show that there is considerable protection. That is why Rome has commissioned a study on the subject.

IOW you didn’t post it.

I just told you that I did. I’m not going to do your homework for you.

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

Every true bishop is Peter, and John, Thomas, Paul etc. …

Not so; The Apostles were apostles, their successors are Bishops with apostolic authority. But there remains throughout scripture and Apostolic Tradition only one Cephas “Rock” who was given the staff from Jesus to shepherd the Whole flock with the Keys of the Kingdom of God. Peter (Cephas) is the only one who receives his commission independently from all the other apostles. They all received their Catholic mission with Peter present on another occasion from scripture.

Let us not forget Peter walked on water, the first to raise the dead, after the resurrection, converted the first Gentile Roman Centurion who sought out the Leader of the apostles Peter from Joppa while the Centurion sent for Peter from Caesarea according to the divine command from heaven,(reveals Peter’s apostolic authority not limited to a single province but crossed apostolic borders) just to mention a few examples from a long biblical list of examples of Peter being first among the apostles. To teach or think something other is not biblical and does not follow apostolic Tradition.

The purpose of a teaching authority is to teach rightly. One doesn’t achieve salvation by carrying a card, or proclaiming “I am for Cephas!” “I am for Apollos!” Is Christ divided?

 

[steve_b]

There have been studies that show that there is considerable protection.

considerable protection? sheesh!
m:

That is why Rome has commissioned a study on the subject.

reference?
m:

I just told you that I did. I’m not going to do your homework for you.

are you refering to this?
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=6390794&postcount=468

That’s NOT a proper reference.

 

[Mickey]

But there remains throughout scripture and Apostolic Tradition only one Cephas

If we say to ourselves ’ You are the Christ, the Son of the living God,’ then we too become Peter, for whoever is united to Christ becomes Peter.
Origen

It appears you are inventing a new college of magistrate that Jesus himself never built.

1 Cor 10:4
And all drank the same spiritual drink; (and they drank of the spiritual rock that followed them, and the rock was Christ.)

Eph 2:19-20
Now therefore you are no more strangers and foreigners; but you are fellow citizens with the saints, and the domestics of God, Built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone:

(Rev. 21:14)
“….and the wall of the city with its twelve foundations, upon which were inscribed the twelve names of the twelve Apostles of the Lamb…”

It is Jesus Christ himself that has paid the price for man’s salvation

This is why there is no need for the “doctrine” of purgatory.

 

[Mickey]

considerable protection?

Yes.

are you refering to this?

No. I am referring to this:

“The question of whether condom use in some circumstances may be morally acceptable is a separate and more difficult question”, Father Faggioni told Catholic News Service.

“You could say officially that it remains under study,” one source said.

http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0901232.htm

 

[Matthew_Kane]

Dude. :tsktsk:Check your facts. The Catholic church is the most unified church on earth. Even the orthodox churches don’t get along. Do you think the Russian church agrees with the Greek orthodox on Constantinople being the New Rome. No. They believe that the New Rome or third one is Moscow. Oh by the way, to comment on your notion that, if you have one bishop as head you don’t need any others, is misleading. You do need others to govern dioceses and to success that one bishop. And the Pope needs the help of the other bishops. Just look at history. Peter was the first Pope and chief of the apostles. And also take a look at the Ecumenical Patriarch. He says he is the leader or primate of all the Orthodox churches, but he states that he has little jurisdiction. Well then who is going to settle the arguments between the churches on an issue of faith or a dogma. That’s illogical. I pray that Christ may reveal to you the truth so that you begin to love the Catholic church.

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

If we say to ourselves ’ You are the Christ, the Son of the living God,’ then we too become Peter, for whoever is united to Christ becomes Peter.

Origen

Out of context, not biblical

1 Cor 10:4

I thank God, for Jesus not to forget the abode of the dead to which he went down to preach to the souls in hades, sheol, purgatory. Purgatory begins as an ancient Hebrew belief fulfilled and revealed by Jesus Christ in the scriptures. **To deny the state of a soul **be it in heaven, hell or in purgatory is a new invention of man, not God.

 

[Mickey]

Dude. Check your facts. The Catholic church is the most unified church on earth.

Dude. Not really. She schismed from the other Patriarchates.

Even the orthodox churches don’t get along.

Holy Orthodoxy is untied by her common Orthodox faith.

Peter was the first Pope

Nope.

Well then who is going to settle the arguments between the churches on an issue of faith or a dogma.

Arguments about what? Our faith has been handed to us by Jesus Christ, the Apostles and their successors----and our doctrines have been codified in the seven great councils of the Church.

I pray that Christ may reveal to you the truth so that you begin to love the Catholic church.

It is not good to assume my friend. I was Roman Catholic for many years. I still have many friends and family who are Roman and Eastern Catholic. I will always have a special place in my heart for the Latin Church—it is the Church that has led me to path I am on today!

 

[Mickey]

I thank God, for Jesus not to forget the abode of the dead to which he went down to preach to the souls in hades, sheol, purgatory. Purgatory begins as an ancient Hebrew belief fulfilled and revealed by Jesus Christ in the scriptures. **To deny the state of a soul **be it in heaven, hell or in purgatory is a new invention of man, not God.

Christ paid the price. There is heaven or hell. Your fiery middle state of purgatory is an invention. Purgatory is not Scriptural.

But then, that has been debated here infinitely.

 

[steve_b]

Wrong. Try again.
Since St Peter would have been appalled at the idea of a supreme infallible Pope of Rome based on his apostolic ministry----you already have.

Gee, that’s not what you said before when you were Catholic.

"No one is trying to spin anything. We are not trying to fool you. Catholics believe that the bishop of Rome, (as the successor of St Peter), is graced with the charism to speak truth in matters of faith and morals. This “infallible” grace comes from the Holy Spirit. Otherwise, he is human and capable of error as any human being. "

http://forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=2349845&postcount=31

"Yes CM. But let’s really call it like it is. The Catholic Church **is **unity. The infallible doctrines are taught by the Church as absolute truth–guaranteed by the Holy Spirit. Those Catholics who disagree with any infallible doctrine of the Church, are not really Catholics! They may not know it, but they have automatically ex-communicated themselves as heretics. "

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=593320&postcount=74

" Infallibility belongs in a special way to the pope as head of the bishops (Matt. 16:17–19; John 21:15–17). As Vatican II remarked, it is a charism the pope “enjoys in virtue of his office, when, as the supreme shepherd and teacher of all the faithful, who confirms his brethren in their faith (Luke 22:32), he proclaims by a definitive act some doctrine of faith or morals. **Therefore his definitions, of themselves, and not from the consent of the Church, are justly held irreformable, for they are pronounced with the assistance of the Holy Spirit, an assistance promised to him in blessed Peter.” **

The infallibility of the pope is not a doctrine that suddenly appeared in Church teaching; rather, it is a doctrine which was implicit in the early Church. It is only our understanding of infallibility which has developed and been more clearly understood over time. In fact, the doctrine of infallibility is implicit in these Petrine texts: John 21:15–17 ("Feed my sheep . . . "), Luke 22:32 (“I have prayed for you that your faith may not fail”), and Matthew 16:18 ("You are Peter . . . ").

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=1034835&postcount=67

 

[steve_b]

Yes.

No. I am referring to this:

“The question of whether condom use in some circumstances may be morally acceptable is a separate and more difficult question”, Father Faggioni told Catholic News Service.

“You could say officially that it remains under study,” one source said.

[catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0901232.htm](http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0901232.htm)

If you read the complete article, and what the pope said, it’s clear that condom use is condemned by the Church.

 

[Mickey]

Gee, that’s not what you said before.

LOL! That’s the second time you have delved into the archives to pull up old posts.

Through much discernment, prayer and study, I have now come to know the fullness of truth of Holy Orthodoxy. And I thank God everyday that my eyes have been opened.

I find it hilarious, (albeit somewhat infantile and desparate), that you resort to this tactic in your frustration.

 

[Mickey]

If you read the complete article, and what the pope said, it’s clear that condom use is condemned by the Church.

Read it again stevie boy! The case is not closed!

 

[josie_L]

If we say to ourselves ’ You are the Christ, the Son of the living God,’ then we too become Peter, for whoever is united to Christ becomes Peter.
Origen

I don’t think this is going to convince anyone (but yourself) that we are all successors to Peter, in fact, the preponderance of Church fathers knew who the direct successor to Peter is/was, i.e., the bishop of Rome.