What is called an ecclesiastical divorce is actually an acceptance of the finality of dissolution of marriage, penance and if warranteed permission to remarry. If the Church does not agree with the civil divorce (e.g. no fault), than no acceptance of the end of the marriage is granted, pastoral counseling goes on, and of course no permission to remarry.
That’s because the divorce is labeled an anullment, and the definition of illegitimate redefined. I assure you, the children don’t notice the difference.Does not support divorce??? LOL! They just bless adulterous marriages then.But in fact in order to be multiply-married in Orthodox church one must first get the divorce ecclesiastically approved. :hypno:
The last is a flat out lie. Catholics do not call the children of annulled marriages illegitimate.
Corban.
Sword, don’t you get it? Orthodoxy does not believe in divorce, but ecclesiastically recognizes divorces up to two times and re-marries the parties involved up to three times. :banghead:
This is an admission that the state has authority over the Orthodox Church and can do something they cannot: divorce. In effect Orthodoxy allows the state has the power to bind and loose, not the Church. Its called caesaropapism I believe. This perspective is a product of the fact that since Orthodoxy has split from the Church Goad has allowed her to be ruled by dictators, Muslims and communists.
The difference is that the Catholic Church does not consider that a secular divorce annuls a legitimate marriage. So now you admit that the Orthodox do grant divorces:
And what a wonderful witness you are.
Note that in all this irrelevant grumbling there is not one suggestion that I was wrong in principle. Typical evasion, which is getting quite transparent. Keep going, Mickey, you’re making us all glad we are Catholics, members of a Church that FOLLOWS the Bible.You seem to be preoccupied with homosexual issues.
As usual your posts are riddled with insults and uncharitable language. Your animosity toward the Holy Orthodox Church is second to none on these forums. I will pray that you may find peace.
However, I cannot respond to insults and calumny so I will let others correspond with you if they feel so inclined.
May you have a blessed Lent.
Why not, from an Orthodox perspective? If you approve divorce and re-marriage, in effect blessing the sin, due to “Mercy and compassion”, why would you not be able to apply the same principle to homosexual mariages? If the sin of divorce and adultery is blessed, why not other sexual sins?
Isa, lets see if you have the power to answer direct questions as Mickey has not. Then what would be the status of a marriage between brother and sister who were not aware of it before they were married in an Orthodox church? Would such a marriage be illegitimate, therefore annulled, or would it be legitimate?As for sister and brother: a sister and brother could not present themselves for marriage, although your (?) previous quote of St. Clement only forbids it when they share the same mother. Your example of one where they didn’t know their blood relationship is another matter entirely, requiring unique pastoring.
I know. You do it without the spouse dying. Got that already. You bless adulterous marriages in church, but have a problem with them if they are not adulterous. Got it.
Yes He did. He only excepted illegitimate marriages. Just like the term “Trinity” is not found in scripture but the concept is implied by it, so the policy of recognizing some marriages as illegitimate and therefore null is implicit in His words. Yeah, yeah, sorry to bring logic into it again.
He said Catholics TELL these children they are illegitimate. That’s a lie, plain and simple.
During the Inquisition, even when the tribunal condemned the “heretic” they could not carry out the sentence. The state had to do it, because the Son of Man came not to destroy men’s lives but to save them. (see Luke, the Unbelieving Samaritan Town).
Thanks, Mickey. This admission means so much to me. Now that Mickey has conceded the argument we can all go home.
The difference is that the Catholic Church does not consider that a secular divorce annuls a legitimate marriage. So now you admit that the Orthodox do grant divorces:
Malachi 2
15 Did he not make one being, with flesh and spirit: and what does that one require but godly offspring? You must then safeguard life that is your own, and not break faith with the wife of your youth.
16 For I hate divorce, says the LORD, the God of Israel, And covering one’s garment with injustice, says the LORD of hosts; You must then safeguard life that is your own, and not break faith.
Matthew 5
30 And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one of your members than to have your whole body go into Gehenna.
31 21"It was also said, ‘Whoever divorces his wife must give her a bill of divorce.’
32 But I say to you, whoever divorces his wife (unless the marriage is unlawfulMISTRANSLATION) causes her to commit adultery, and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.
God said it, I believe it!
Ron
A hypocrite, hunting after the glory that comes from an apparent righteousness, is untroubled so long as he thinks that he escapes notice. But when he is detected, he utters streams of imprecation, imagining that by abusing others he can hide his own deformity.
And the two would become one flesh how? And the prayers for children which are repeated during the service, what do you do with them?
Do you mean that we have the ability to close our eyes and ignore that brother and sister had consumated a marriage in good faith, begot siblings/cousins, and go into denial that such a situation calls for drastic pastoral counseling? No, I do not believe we have that power of denial.
We don’t have the magic word. Corban.
No, your mistranslation does. I’ve already posted the myriad of lexica for “pornei” and illegitimage marriages isn’t one of them.Yes He did. He only excepted illegitimate marriages. Just like the term “Trinity” is not found in scripture but the concept is implied by it, so the policy of recognizing some marriages as illegitimate and therefore null is implicit in His words. Yeah, yeah, sorry to bring logic into it again.
Ron
I am responding. It is the same speicious reasoning of the Pharisees.He said Catholics TELL these children they are illegitimate. That’s a lie, plain and simple.
Your cute little “Corban” instead of actually responding to a point is getting tiresome and meaningless. Just thought you’d like to know before you embarrass yourself further by this evasion.
Ron
I know, Isa, you think that a protestant translator knows more about the ancient Greek language than an ancient Greek speaker like Clement of Alexandria:
