OSAS and Faith Alone-A different question

[Tom317]

Many Protestant Christians hold a Once Saved Always Saved theology. The vast majority of Protestant Christians hold that we are saved by faith alone and that good works plays no role in salvation.

For the sake of this thread, let’s assume those Christians are correct and that OSAS and FA are completely correct. If those two teachings are correct, then literally all anyone has to do is to believe in Christ as their Savior and God, they need to do absolutely nothing else (though they could choose to do many good and loving works from a love of God). They could sin unintentionally and intentionally and never lose their salvation.

So then, since every faithful Catholic accepts Jesus as their Savior and God, that means every faithful Catholic is saved under the Protestant beliefs of OSAS and FA. Therefore, why do many Protestants continue to attack Catholics if Catholics already are doing the minimum expected requirements to be saved under their own doctrines?

In other words, why would anyone be anti-Catholic since Catholics believe in Christ and must be saved according to the OSAS and FA teachings?

 

[Tom]

A simple answer (from what I have heard) is that if you try to earn your salvation you don’t trust that Jesus has saved you. Therefore you’re not really believing in His saving grace but trying to earn your salvation. If you’re trying to earn your salvation you were never really saved in the first place and you’re not relying on “FA”.

 

[Tom317]

A simple answer (from what I have heard) is that if you try to earn your salvation you don’t trust that Jesus has saved you. Therefore you’re not really believing in His saving grace but trying to earn your salvation. If you’re trying to earn your salvation you were never really saved in the first place and you’re not relying on “FA”.

Good response. But, where does the Church ever teach we try to earn our salvation and where did Protestants ever get that truly goofy idea to begin with?

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

Good response. But, where does the Church ever teach we try to earn our salvation and where did Protestants ever get that truly goofy idea to begin with?

Where did they get the idea that we are worshiping Mary?

 

[VociMike]

A simple answer (from what I have heard) is that if you try to earn your salvation you don’t trust that Jesus has saved you. Therefore you’re not really believing in His saving grace but trying to earn your salvation. If you’re trying to earn your salvation you were never really saved in the first place and you’re not relying on “FA”.

Even if this were the situation (and I realize we’re all talking hypothetically here), one is still trusting Christ, one just has a wrong understanding of how that trust in Christ is supposed to be manifest by the believer.

I think the original question is a very good one, for it shows that the Protestant attacks on “works salvation” are in themselves a form of works salvation, for they say it is not enough to believe that Christ is Lord and Savior, but one also has to get the exact mechanism of salvation correct. One has to pass a theological test, as it were, or else God’s saving grace is cancelled out.

 

[Tom]

Good response. But, where does the Church ever teach we try to earn our salvation and where did Protestants ever get that truly goofy idea to begin with?

Good question, actually the Church teachers we can’t “earn” our salvation. I think it’s a testament to all the good the Catholic Church does in the world, they see all the Church does and think the Church is doing it to “earn” their way into heaven.

 

[Tom]

Even if this were the situation (and I realize we’re all talking hypothetically here), one is still trusting Christ, one just has a wrong understanding of how that trust in Christ is supposed to be manifest by the believer.

I think the original question is a very good one, for it shows that the Protestant attacks on “works salvation” are in themselves a form of works salvation, for they say it is not enough to believe that Christ is Lord and Savior, but one also has to get the exact mechanism of salvation correct. One has to pass a theological test, as it were, or else God’s saving grace is cancelled out.

But I don’t want to feed the poor, clothe thwe naked, visit those in prison… (et al)… if I can only figure out a way to not “Do” the things I need to… hey wait a minute, if FA and OSAS are true I don’t need to “Do” anything!!! great

 

[VociMike]

But I don’t want to feed the poor, clothe thwe naked, visit those in prison… (et al)… if I can only figure out a way to not “Do” the things I need to… hey wait a minute, if FA and OSAS are true I don’t need to “Do” anything!!! great

I think for many OSAS believers there’s a different dynamic involved. They are willing to do good works, but they just want it to be their idea. They don’t want to feel that they are submitting to God. It’s a very American attitude - I’ll do it because I choose to do it, not because anybody tells me to do it.

 

[Tom317]

If we accept Christ as our Savior and God, then we are done. Why would it matter if we are Catholic? Further, the doctrines of OSAS and FA do not really say that anything other then a person must authentically accept Christ into their heart and lives as their personal Savior and God. Every faithful Catholic does that, so where is the conflict?

 

[crisco]

I think the original question is a very good one, for it shows that the Protestant attacks on “works salvation” are in themselves a form of works salvation, for they say it is not enough to believe that Christ is Lord and Savior, but one also has to get the exact mechanism of salvation correct. One has to pass a theological test, as it were, or else God’s saving grace is cancelled out.

I agree - this position requires a certain amount of knowledge and understanding. There’s no way my 4 year old daughter would be able to pass this test.

 

[Roman_Catholic_1]

A simple answer (from what I have heard) is that if you try to earn your salvation you don’t trust that Jesus has saved you. Therefore you’re not really believing in His saving grace but trying to earn your salvation. If you’re trying to earn your salvation you were never really saved in the first place and you’re not relying on “FA”.

So then they would say that all it takes is faith alone… but they would then be sticklers about the type of faith it takes??? Jeeze and I was always asked if I wanted assurance, now if I even had faith alone I would have to worry about whether its the right kind of faith?

How about this for the once saved always saved crowd: I go out, believe that all it takes is to believe in Jesus Christ, I do my one alter call and accept Him into my heart, but the next weekend I go to Mass and become Catholic. Would this be acceptable?

I can guess the answer, I was never saved in the first place… so much for assurance.

 

[Tom317]

So then they would say that all it takes is faith alone… but they would then be sticklers about the type of faith it takes??? Jeeze and I was always asked if I wanted assurance, now if I even had faith alone I would have to worry about whether its the right kind of faith?

How about this for the once saved always saved crowd: I go out, believe that all it takes is to believe in Jesus Christ, I do my one alter call and accept Him into my heart, but the next weekend I go to Mass and become Catholic. Would this be acceptable?

I can guess the answer, I was never saved in the first place… so much for assurance.

I guess the only way to know if you have enough faith is if you refuse to be Catholic.

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

Many Protestant Christians hold a Once Saved Always Saved theology. The vast majority of Protestant Christians hold that we are saved by faith alone and that good works plays no role in salvation.

For the sake of this thread, let’s assume those Christians are correct and that OSAS and FA are completely correct. If those two teachings are correct,** then literally all anyone has to do is to believe in Christ as their Savior and God**, they need to do absolutely nothing else (though they could choose to do many good and loving works from a love of God). They could sin unintentionally and intentionally and never lose their salvation.

So then, since every faithful Catholic accepts Jesus as their Savior and God, that means every faithful Catholic is saved under the Protestant beliefs of OSAS and FA. Therefore, why do many Protestants continue to attack Catholics if Catholics already are doing the minimum expected requirements to be saved under their own doctrines?

In other words, why would anyone be anti-Catholic since Catholics believe in Christ and must be saved according to the OSAS and FA teachings?

If one is truly saved, with true faith, it will be an active faith that shows itslef in good works, thus OSAS, FA are not incompatiable.

 

[Randy_Carson]

A simple answer (from what I have heard) is that if you try to earn your salvation you don’t trust that Jesus has saved you. Therefore you’re not really believing in His saving grace but trying to earn your salvation. If you’re trying to earn your salvation you were never really saved in the first place and you’re not relying on “FA”.

I believe there is a certain amount of irony here and wonder if much of the energy expended by evangelicals is not done so in an attempt to prove (to themselves and to the others in their congregation) that they really are saved and persevering until the end.

Since many evangelicals do believe that it is possible to fall away (meaning that they never really were saved to begin with), I think there is a certain amount of fear driving them.

Ironically, while it is claimed (erroneously) by evangelicals that Catholics seek to “earn” their way into heaven, it is the evangelicals themselves who appear to be on a treadmill of works (missions, witnessing, service to the church, etc.).

 

[Tom317]

If one is truly saved, with true faith, it will be an active faith that shows itslef in good works, thus OSAS, FA are not incompatiable.

Okay, yet then if that were true and if Protestants held that to be true, then they would have no reason at all to be against the Catholic faith. Catholics have true faith and they do truly accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior, so all of the rest should be meaningless in the world of OSAS and FA.

 

[Pjs2ejs]

Protestants will claim this magical “active” faith where works is a by-product of. But they really do believe that you could do ANYTHING and if you were already “saved” then you don’t have to worry.

I wish they would just say, “Okay, faith and works go hand in hand. You can’t have one without the other. And they both play a role in our judgement and salvation.” It’s as simple as that.

 

[Beyrak]

The further protestants get away from the Catholic Church, the less theology they have. It is a religion of convenience for them. Be saved and never be obligated to do another thing. How absurd really, the once saved, always saved myth.

And they believe in ‘sola-scriptura’. Well, what about James 2:17 Even so faith, if it have not works, is dead in itself.

So many scriptures the protestants have to ignore to believe (if they really do) what they do.

 

[myredeemerlives]

The further protestants get away from the Catholic Church, the less theology they have. It is a religion of convenience for them. Be saved and never be obligated to do another thing. How absurd really, the once saved, always saved myth.

And they believe in ‘sola-scriptura’. Well, what about James 2:17 Even so faith, if it have not works, is dead in itself.

So many scriptures the protestants have to ignore to believe (if they really do) what they do.

Gah!

So because I am not a Catholic and believe that it is God’s grace alone that saves me (NOT the sacraments) I am just looking for an easy way out to live it up in my sins?

NO! That’s not how it works at all. It’s the REAL prescence of Christ in me that motivates me to tell the world about him and to be like Him.

Couldn’t I point my finger at half the congregation in the Catholic church and ask if they are truly following Christ? Are they out living their faith or do they look like the world? Couldn’t I just as easily say that the sacraments are nothing more than a cop out? Get baptised, take communion and hey presto… you are right with God!

Doesn’t quite work that way does it? And it doesn’t work that way with us either.

 

[wisdomseeker]

Gah!

So because I am not a Catholic and believe that it is God’s grace alone that saves me (NOT the sacraments) I am just looking for an easy way out to live it up in my sins?

NO! That’s not how it works at all. It’s the REAL prescence of Christ in me that motivates me to tell the world about him and to be like Him.

Couldn’t I point my finger at half the congregation in the Catholic church and ask if they are truly following Christ? Are they out living their faith or do they look like the world? Couldn’t I just as easily say that the sacraments are nothing more than a cop out? Get baptised, take communion and hey presto… you are right with God!

Doesn’t quite work that way does it? And it doesn’t work that way with us either.

so if you believe OSAS than what is your excuse for not being a Catholic?

 

[CentralFLJames]

Many Protestant Christians hold a Once Saved Always Saved theology. The vast majority of Protestant Christians hold that we are saved by faith alone and that good works plays no role in salvation.

For the sake of this thread, let’s assume those Christians are correct and that OSAS and FA are completely correct. If those two teachings are correct, then literally all anyone has to do is to believe in Christ as their Savior and God, they need to do absolutely nothing else (though they could choose to do many good and loving works from a love of God). They could sin unintentionally and intentionally and never lose their salvation.

So then, since every faithful Catholic accepts Jesus as their Savior and God, that means every faithful Catholic is saved under the Protestant beliefs of OSAS and FA. Therefore, why do many Protestants continue to attack Catholics if Catholics already are doing the minimum expected requirements to be saved under their own doctrines?

In other words, why would anyone be anti-Catholic since Catholics believe in Christ and must be saved according to the OSAS and FA teachings?

Why do many Protestants continue to attack Catholics if Catholics already are doing the minimum expected requirements to be saved under their own doctrines?

Because, it always makes people who are insecure in their faith and personal relationships uncomfortable when made to work side-by-side with overachievers. It sets a standard that makes them work harder than they want to.

Thus the more Protestant’s whine and complain about what they see as Catholics exceeding the requirements the more it demonstrates that they feel inadequate in their own relationship with Jesus and becomes an admission that they feel they are not loving Him as much. And the louder and louder that complaining gets the more progressively they demonstrate that they DO NOT REALLY BELIEVE THEY ARE SAVED AND DO NOT BELEIVE IN OSAS OR BY FAITH ALONE. This is the crux of the fact - their intellect as well as their inner spirit constantly screams “WHAT IF THE CATHOLICS ARE RIGHT!”

Catholics - keep smiling and professing your faith. If we can’t get them to convert we will drive them into insanity in trying to cope with a teaching of man that they can’t and don’t really believe. Thus we may thereby save them by giving them an excuse of ‘not being of sound enough mind’ to consciously commit a grave sin. If we can’t cure Luther’s scrupulosity that has now become a planetary contagion we can give them palliative relief and an excuse.

So. we might save them in spite of themselves, OSAS and FA and heretical beliefs…

James