OSAS and Faith Alone-A different question

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OSAS is false:

Romans 13:11 And that knowing the season; that it is now the hour for us to rise from sleep. For now our salvation is nearer than when we first believed.

This is St. Paul writing here and he is crystal clear that his salvation is “nearer” which means that it isn’t his. Oh foolish men when will you begin believe?
 
Yeah we will be “saved” when Jesus arrives, what’s your point? We are running a race and headed towards that goal, does that mean we aren’t saved while running?

Of course not.
 
Gah!

So because I am not a Catholic and believe that it is God’s grace alone that saves me (NOT the sacraments) I am just looking for an easy way out to live it up in my sins?
Actually, Catholics also believe that it is grace alone that saves us, and He also gives us the Sacraments as a means of that grace. It’s not either grace or the Sacraments, it’s both/and.
NO! That’s not how it works at all. It’s the REAL prescence of Christ in me that motivates me to tell the world about him and to be like Him.

Couldn’t I point my finger at half the congregation in the Catholic church and ask if they are truly following Christ? Are they out living their faith or do they look like the world?
Why only half of them? My priest regularly asks that of every single one of us, though without pointing any fingers. It is recognizing the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist, and eating His Flesh and drinking His Blood (you are what you eat, y’know 😉 ) that motivates me to be His Hands and Feet in this world.
Couldn’t I just as easily say that the sacraments are nothing more than a cop out? Get baptised, take communion and hey presto… you are right with God!
I’m afraid you don’t understand the nature and purpose of the Sacraments. In baptism, our sins are washed away and we are given the gift of the Holy Spirit, just like the Bible says. One must already be “right with God” in order to receive (not take) Holy Communion. Hardly a cop-out, I’d say.
 
Yeah we will be “saved” when Jesus arrives, what’s your point? We are running a race and headed towards that goal, does that mean we aren’t saved while running?

Of course not.
We have been saved, we are being saved, we will be saved if we persevere and work out our salvation with fear and trembling, with faithful hope in the promises of Christ.
 
Gah!

So because I am not a Catholic and believe that it is God’s grace alone that saves me (NOT the sacraments) I am just looking for an easy way out to live it up in my sins?

NO! That’s not how it works at all. It’s the REAL prescence of Christ in me that motivates me to tell the world about him and to be like Him.

Couldn’t I point my finger at half the congregation in the Catholic church and ask if they are truly following Christ? Are they out living their faith or do they look like the world? Couldn’t I just as easily say that the sacraments are nothing more than a cop out? Get baptised, take communion and hey presto… you are right with God!

Doesn’t quite work that way does it? And it doesn’t work that way with us either.
We receive God’s grace through the sacraments. So it’s God’s grace that saves.

God bless,
Michael
 
We receive God’s grace through the sacraments. So it’s God’s grace that saves.

God bless,
Michael
Hey bro,
I walways liked that you don’t mince words. So without the sacraments am I damned to hell?
 
My honest, off-the-cuff answer for your first question is simply we are attacked because we are practicing all those things they are averse to doing as in going to Confession and trying with all our might to live according to ALL Jesus taught, not just the presumptive parts that they’ve invented to keep from doing the “works” they don’t like to do! We simply are a living testimony against their presumptive lifestyles. Of course we are attacked!

As for your second question - because of the above! We are living proof that their false beliefs are just that - false. They need to constantly re-convince themselves they are right in order to remain away from the Source of all Faith - the Church. Birds of a feather flock together and peck at those who don’t belong to their own flock!

Peace,

Gail
 
Hey bro,
I walways liked that you don’t mince words. So without the sacraments am I damned to hell?
Hi Simon! How are you doing? 🙂

The sacraments represent the normative means of receiving God’s grace, but God is not bound to these means.

God Bless,
Michael
 
Hey bro,
I walways liked that you don’t mince words. So without the sacraments am I damned to hell?
we cannot know this. but you may been dissobeying God.
you know, like the jews when they dissobey what God command them to do.
 
Hi Simon! How are you doing? 🙂

The sacraments represent the normative means of receiving God’s grace, but God is not bound to these means.

God Bless,
Michael
Things are well Michael:thumbsup: , it’s good God is not bound because it’d be hard for me to explain all the blessings He bestows on me and mine…
 
Hey bro,
I walways liked that you don’t mince words. So without the sacraments am I damned to hell?
John 6:53
So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in yourselves.”

John 3:5
Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.”

There’s two sacraments. I’ll let Jesus answer for me.

Yes yes, I know, He didnt really mean what the words say, right?
 
Many Protestant Christians hold a Once Saved Always Saved theology. The vast majority of Protestant Christians hold that we are saved by faith alone and that good works plays no role in salvation.

For the sake of this thread, let’s assume those Christians are correct and that OSAS and FA are completely correct. If those two teachings are correct, then literally all anyone has to do is to believe in Christ as their Savior and God, they need to do absolutely nothing else (though they could choose to do many good and loving works from a love of God). They could sin unintentionally and intentionally and never lose their salvation.

So then, since every faithful Catholic accepts Jesus as their Savior and God, that means every faithful Catholic is saved under the Protestant beliefs of OSAS and FA. Therefore, why do many Protestants continue to attack Catholics if Catholics already are doing the minimum expected requirements to be saved under their own doctrines?

In other words, why would anyone be anti-Catholic since Catholics believe in Christ and must be saved according to the OSAS and FA teachings?
I see where the OP is coming from and I commiserate with their question. It is for this reason that, even though I am a firm believer in Free Grace theology (Grace Evangelical Society), I do also believe in the importance of the Sacraments as a means of conveying edifying/sanctifying (but not Salvific or justifying) grace.

I think it is a weakness of certain OSAS/FA believers (which I would define as Free Grace), that while they believe the most wretched person who believes along their definition is Saved, yet a pious Roman Catholic who, although perhaps confusing the message of grace, still recognizes that they are Saved by grace through faith (defined somewhat differently) is not Saved.

On the one hand, an FGer (or even a Calvinist) might argue that that is the “narrow path” of Salvation, but on the other hand, it seems as though we are quibbling with words. Obviously, as an Anglican, I believe the Sacraments are important (although I do not believe they are Salvific) I do believe in the Real Presence.

Are Roman Catholics a part of that ‘One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church’ of the Nicene Creed? The truthful answer is that I sincerely hope so. After all, as an Anglican, I have a great debt of thanks to owe Roman Catholicism. After all, without Pope Gregory the Great, there would be no Church of England. Roman Catholicism gave us a greater understanding of the Sacraments and of key elements of the Christian faith. To deny this is to deny history I think.

I think it is a grave weakness of certain Christians to try and judge the Salvation of other. My understanding of Free Grace theology is that Christians should have assurance of their own Salvation and their beliefs, but not of anyone else’s. Scripture seems to warn fairly clearly that no one can know another’s “heart”.

Also, I would add, in response to those who throw out Bible passages (such as from St. James) to try and simplistically disprove Free Grace theology, please do not underestimate your opponent’s intelligence, even if you do disagree. After all, does it not anger Roman Catholics when Protestants throw a Scripture verse out there to claim that it shows Roman Catholicism is wrong or heretical?
 
😃 He would have to. As we can see, he can’t rely on you guys to get it right on your own.
In many ways, Roman Catholics and Calvinists are similar in their lack of eternal assurance:
  1. Roman Catholic (like some Arminians) are afraid that they will lose their Salvation
  2. Calvinists are afraid they were never really Saved to begin with
👍

BTW- no insult is intended. Merely being a bit humorous about various theologies. After all, us Anglicans are mocked as being Catholic Lite: “Same great taste, half the guilt”.
 
It is like this: you go to school get all the instructions, then you get all these instructions and boxed and never use or do anything with it. never put into practice. those instructions basically is good for nothing.

i think we can call those the hearers of Word but not doers of the Word.
 
It is like this: you go to school get all the instructions, then you get all these instructions and boxed and never use or do anything with it. never put into practice. those instructions basically is good for nothing.

i think we can call those the hearers of Word but not doers of the Word.
Well, there are people who do that. They get a good education and such, but they never use/apply it. But that person does not die, they simply have a poorer quality of life. For a Free Grace theologian, the same could be said about works and avoiding sin. If one has very few good works and sins a lot without repenting, the following may happen:

A) Temporal punishment (this could include sickness, psychiatric issues, loss of money/prestige/power/etc., shame, etc…eventually, premature death…read the Old Testament :))
B) Loss of eternal rewards (their works are burned and become as stubble as St. Paul says)
C) Shame when they finally meet Christ ‘face-to-face’

And who knows, maybe it will be more painful for them when they shed their fleshly nature and are ‘glorified’ (justification---->sanctification---->glorification) in Heaven since their soul is more attached to flesh than spirit. Compare it to someone who ingests poison: a tiny amount may go through their system and be relatively easy to eliminate; a lot and it may require ‘purging of the stomach’. It says we get new bodies, but it never says how difficult it is to get rid of the old ones.

Thus, they will be Saved, but they will have a relatively low “quality of life”, both temporally and eternally.
 
In many ways, Roman Catholics and Calvinists are similar in their lack of eternal assurance:
  1. Roman Catholic (like some Arminians) are afraid that they will lose their Salvation
  2. Calvinists are afraid they were never really Saved to begin with
👍

BTW- no insult is intended. Merely being a bit humorous about various theologies. After all, us Anglicans are mocked as being Catholic Lite: “Same great taste, half the guilt”.
Please read this quote:
…Sometimes Fundamentalists portray Catholics as if they must every moment be in terror of losing their salvation since Catholics recognize that it is possible to lose salvation through mortal sin. Fundamentalists then hold out the idea that, rather than living every moment in terror, they can have a calm, assured knowledge that they will, in fact, be saved, and that nothing will ever be able to change this fact.
But this portrayal is in error. Catholics do not live lives of mortal terror concerning salvation. True, salvation can be lost through mortal sin, but such sins are by nature grave ones, and not the kind that a person living the Christian life is going to slip into committing on the spur of the moment, without deliberate thought and consent. Neither does the Catholic Church teach that one cannot have an assurance of salvation. This is true both of present and future salvation.
One can be confident of one’s present salvation. This is one of the chief reasons why God gave us the sacraments—to provide visible assurances that he is invisibly providing us with his grace. And one can be confident that one has not thrown away that grace by simply examining one’s life and seeing whether one has committed mortal sin. Indeed, the tests that John sets forth in his first epistle to help us know whether we are abiding in grace are, in essence, tests of whether we are dwelling in grave sin. For example, “By this it may be seen who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not do right is not of God, nor he who does not love his brother” (1 John 3:10), “If any one says, ‘I love God,’ and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, cannot love God whom he has not seen” (1 John 4:20), “For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome” (1 John 5:3).
source:
catholic.com/library/Assurance_of_Salvation.asp
 
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