OSAS: Devil gives up tempting you?

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Would it be logical to say that a OSAS person will not be tempted
by the Devil anymore, because he would be just wasting his time doing so?
 
I’m not sure (not being an adherent of the OSAS theory), but I think that’s where the whole “backsliding” thing comes into play. I.E., if you keep sinning, you were never really saved in the first place.
So, if you subscribe to that outlook, and you find yourself still sinning (and come on, who doesn’t?) then it would seem that if you were honest with yourself, you’d have to slap that “backslider” label on, and assume you weren’t saved to begin with.
(Here’s where I go off on speculation) Maybe then you say, “It’s no use, I thought I was really saved last time, and I clearly wasn’t, so this whole Jesus thing doesn’t work for me. I give up.” That would seem to be a victory for the Devil.

But I don’t know. The whole OSAS theory goes right over my head, no matter how many very nice people on this forum try to explain it to me. 😉
 
Techno2000 said:
Would it be logical to say that a OSAS person will not be tempted
by the Devil anymore, because he would be just wasting his time doing so?
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I think the Devil would continue to tempt the OSAS person because by his or her debauchery, others who are not saved could be ensnared.

Let’s say you have 10,000 OSAS people in a big orgy in Ft. Lauderdale on Spring Break…

Lot of non-believers will want to strip and get in on the fun…

Satan loves the phrase, “Everybody else is doing it…”

Hope this helps. :tiphat:
 
Once Saved, Always Saved theology really moves into pompous territory in that we are able to judge ourselves and convince ourselves that we are able to stand in the presence of God because of a one time assent of the will. This removes the free will utilized when making the decision to “accept” Christ to also reject Christ at a later date. If one “backslides” on board but can never fall off board as is articulated by some who hold this belief, then our fate is sealed and the judgement that Jesus preaches is nullified. Then if one should commit a very serious sin they resort to the claim that the individual was never really and truly “saved” in the first place. So then, how can anyone ever really be assured of being saved since satan is very real and so is our free will??

OSAS is not accepted by many protestants because it is a contemporary theological dreamscape never mentioned by anyone in the Early Church or pre-reformation era. It is unbiblical and downright irrational.

I wish that it were true so that I could prance on cloud nine and “Know” that I am going to heaven. But that’s not what Jesus taught. That’s not the Gospel that Paul preached and that is not the example of the early Church. So as Saint Paul says in Philippians Chapter 2 verse 12, " So then, my beloved, obedient as you have always been, not only when I am present but all the more now when I am absent, work out your salvation with fear and trembling."

So no, satan never gives up and neither should we. Our faith is a journey and is judged at death by our faith and love. ( Galatians 5:6)

God Bless…teachccd:)
 
Stay sober and alert. Your opponent the devil is prowling like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour. Resist him, solid in your faith. (1 Peter 5:8)
 
The answer is emphatically no. As a non-Catholic who is married to a Catholic woman and raising four Catholic kids, and having been raised Baptist, I think I can shed soem light on this subject from my point of view.

OSAS, or as we called it "Eternal Security, " does not mean that you will not be tempted, nor does it mean that you will not sin, even grievously. To the contrary, Christians are constantly temtped and invariably fail. But it means that a true salvation event is eternally binding. There is nothing you can do or fail to do to lose your salvation. It draws on the promise from John 10:27-29 In which Christ refers to his followers as his sheep and that noone can take them out of his hand.

As for being backslidden, I have seen this to always refer to a person who at one time had an active church life, but now doesn’t for one reason or the other. But even this does not “pluck them from the fathers hand.”

Hope this helps.

Tim
 
Also, I would not agree that the notion of “Eternal Security” views a one time act of “acceptance” pompously. But rather, I think it views the one time, all encompassing, fully complete act of Christ’s sacrifice on the cross very highly. It was all that was necessary to cover all sins past, present and future, for those who accept the sacrifice.

Also, the notion of Eternal Security amongst Protestants as being not all that common is also inaccurate. There are groups of Protestants, those generally referred to as “Pentecostals” belive that you can lose your salvation. Every other “conservative” protestatnt group that I know believes in Eternal Security.

Thanks,

Tim
 
Tim_Cleveland said:
The answer is emphatically no. As a non-Catholic who is married to a Catholic woman and raising four Catholic kids, and having been raised Baptist, I think I can shed soem light on this subject from my point of view.

OSAS, or as we called it "Eternal Security, " does not mean that you will not be tempted, nor does it mean that you will not sin, even grievously. To the contrary, Christians are constantly temtped and invariably fail. But it means that a true salvation event is eternally binding. There is nothing you can do or fail to do to lose your salvation. It draws on the promise from John 10:27-29 In which Christ refers to his followers as his sheep and that noone can take them out of his hand.

As for being backslidden, I have seen this to always refer to a person who at one time had an active church life, but now doesn’t for one reason or the other. But even this does not “pluck them from the fathers hand.”

Hope this helps.

Tim
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Now if you were to join the Catholic Church would you still have this " Eternal Security" ?
 
Tim_Cleveland said:
The answer is emphatically no. As a non-Catholic who is married to a Catholic woman and raising four Catholic kids, and having been raised Baptist, I think I can shed soem light on this subject from my point of view.

OSAS, or as we called it "Eternal Security, " does not mean that you will not be tempted, nor does it mean that you will not sin, even grievously. To the contrary, Christians are constantly temtped and invariably fail. But it means that a true salvation event is eternally binding. There is nothing you can do or fail to do to lose your salvation. It draws on the promise from John 10:27-29 In which Christ refers to his followers as his sheep and that noone can take them out of his hand.

As for being backslidden, I have seen this to always refer to a person who at one time had an active church life, but now doesn’t for one reason or the other. But even this does not “pluck them from the fathers hand.”

Hope this helps.

Tim
Click to expand...
How are you moved to sincere repentance if you are guaranteed the ultimate eternal happiness?? You may feel sorry for having offended God but if you might even for a second think that you separated yourself from Him wouldn’t that bring you to a more firm purpose of amendment??
 
Yes…NOTHING can pluck me from the hand of the Father. I could switch to another religion, even a non christian one, or becom an atheist. I could commit murder. Anything I do or fail to do will not overpower the covering of the blood of Christ.

As for whether being “threatened” with losing my salvation might urge me into true sorrow for my sin, I guess I don’t know. Certainly, a person who ascribes to Eternal Security should be trully sorry for his sin, but not so much becuase he woudl lose his slavation, but because it grieves God and disrespects the sacrifice that Christ made. We are encouraged to repent for sins, but we do not have a confession. We only confess directly to God. Sacramental confession is considered heresy to a Protestant in fact, though as I look for God’s guidance for me, this is a major area that I am thinking Catholic like as I understand more the actual context of Sacramental Confession. From a Protestant point of view, the need for subsequent confession to reatin salavation would mean that nobody is going to heaven in that we constantly sin and would therefore be in constant jeopardy.

Tim
 
Tim_Cleveland said:
Yes…NOTHING can pluck me from the hand of the Father. I could switch to another religion, even a non christian one, or becom an atheist. I could commit murder. Anything I do or fail to do will not overpower the covering of the blood of Christ.

As for whether being “threatened” with losing my salvation might urge me into true sorrow for my sin, I guess I don’t know. Certainly, a person who ascribes to Eternal Security should be trully sorry for his sin, but not so much becuase he woudl lose his slavation, but because it grieves God and disrespects the sacrifice that Christ made. We are encouraged to repent for sins, but we do not have a confession. We only confess directly to God. Sacramental confession is considered heresy to a Protestant in fact, though as I look for God’s guidance for me, this is a major area that I am thinking Catholic like as I understand more the actual context of Sacramental Confession. From a Protestant point of view, the need for subsequent confession to reatin salavation would mean that nobody is going to heaven in that we constantly sin and would therefore be in constant jeopardy.

Tim
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I’m starting to see why people don’t like the Catholic Church it is
because you have to really think about your sins in the CC, and
people like the easy way out with this, “Eternal Security” you don’t have to go to confession and have any Guilt or worry about
ones salavation, too bad its all Personal Interpretations from Heretics.
 
Techno:

Please, by all means, do not interpret Eternal Security as permission to NOT think about your sins or feel guilty about them. Exactly the opposite. An internal sign of salvation would be to desire to do good, and to feel guilt and repent when we fail. But I cannot look upon your heart, only God can. So I don’t look at somebody who I thought was saved but is now clearly sinning and say “Well he must not have ever been saved for real.” I do not have the power or authroity to do this.

But it is an invitation to not worry about your salvation and the the ultimate state of your soul. The trully powerful aspect of the Cross is that it’s redemption is full, complete and PERMANENT. Christ’s final words on the Cross included the word “tetelestai” (excuse misspelling) which we interpret as three words - It is finished. The Greek is not a word of failure, or weekness, or defeat. It is a word of utlimate completeness and VICTORY!

Again, if we must get “saved” after each sin, we are all in trouble. Think of all the things that we do that are sin. And we do them contsantly. Think about these.
  • Did you have a flash of anger when someone cut you off on the road? - SIN
  • Did you ever see someone who needed help and passed them up when you probably could have stopped and helped? - SIN
  • Did you ever take an hour and 10 minute lunch when you were allotted one hour? - SIN
  • Have you ever not provided your spouse the affection, respect, love that they were due? - SIN
  • Did you ever see somene of the opposite sex and say “Hmmmm”? - SIN
  • Ever an unkind word? - SIN
  • Smoke a cigarette, drink too much, eat too much or otherwise ? -SIN
And on and on. We sin every day, all day, constantly. Everyone dies in unrepented sin. Unless of course the Blood is complete and permanent.

Tim
 
Tim_Cleveland said:
Techno:

Please, by all means, do not interpret Eternal Security as permission to NOT think about your sins or feel guilty about them. Exactly the opposite. An internal sign of salvation would be to desire to do good, and to feel guilt and repent when we fail. But I cannot look upon your heart, only God can. So I don’t look at somebody who I thought was saved but is now clearly sinning and say “Well he must not have ever been saved for real.” I do not have the power or authroity to do this.

But it is an invitation to not worry about your salvation and the the ultimate state of your soul. The trully powerful aspect of the Cross is that it’s redemption is full, complete and PERMANENT. Christ’s final words on the Cross included the word “tetelestai” (excuse misspelling) which we interpret as three words - It is finished. The Greek is not a word of failure, or weekness, or defeat. It is a word of utlimate completeness and VICTORY!

Again, if we must get “saved” after each sin, we are all in trouble. Think of all the things that we do that are sin. And we do them contsantly. Think about these.
  • Did you have a flash of anger when someone cut you off on the road? - SIN
  • Did you ever see someone who needed help and passed them up when you probably could have stopped and helped? - SIN
  • Did you ever take an hour and 10 minute lunch when you were allotted one hour? - SIN
  • Have you ever not provided your spouse the affection, respect, love that they were due? - SIN
  • Did you ever see somene of the opposite sex and say “Hmmmm”? - SIN
  • Ever an unkind word? - SIN
  • Smoke a cigarette, drink too much, eat too much or otherwise ? -SIN
And on and on. We sin every day, all day, constantly. Everyone dies in unrepented sin. Unless of course the Blood is complete and permanent.

Tim
Click to expand...
Right, In the spiritual world your souls collect a lot of garbage
and in Confession you are made clean and purified of this.
 
Tim_Cleveland said:
Techno:

Please, by all means, do not interpret Eternal Security as permission to NOT think about your sins or feel guilty about them. Exactly the opposite. An internal sign of salvation would be to desire to do good, and to feel guilt and repent when we fail. But I cannot look upon your heart, only God can. So I don’t look at somebody who I thought was saved but is now clearly sinning and say “Well he must not have ever been saved for real.” I do not have the power or authroity to do this.

But it is an invitation to not worry about your salvation and the the ultimate state of your soul. The trully powerful aspect of the Cross is that it’s redemption is full, complete and PERMANENT. Christ’s final words on the Cross included the word “tetelestai” (excuse misspelling) which we interpret as three words - It is finished. The Greek is not a word of failure, or weekness, or defeat. It is a word of utlimate completeness and VICTORY!

Again, if we must get “saved” after each sin, we are all in trouble. Think of all the things that we do that are sin. And we do them contsantly. Think about these.
  • Did you have a flash of anger when someone cut you off on the road? - SIN
  • Did you ever see someone who needed help and passed them up when you probably could have stopped and helped? - SIN
  • Did you ever take an hour and 10 minute lunch when you were allotted one hour? - SIN
  • Have you ever not provided your spouse the affection, respect, love that they were due? - SIN
  • Did you ever see somene of the opposite sex and say “Hmmmm”? - SIN
  • Ever an unkind word? - SIN
  • Smoke a cigarette, drink too much, eat too much or otherwise ? -SIN
And on and on. We sin every day, all day, constantly. Everyone dies in unrepented sin. Unless of course the Blood is complete and permanent.

Tim
Click to expand...
We don’t believe that every minor sin is such that it would lose you your salvation. There is sin ‘unto death’ as John says, and sin ‘not unto death’. Which to us means mortal sin (resulting in death of the soul) and venial sin which doesn’t.

But I don’t understand how if I COULD do anything and not lose my salvation once gained, this doesn’t translate into permission to do whatever I want once I’m sure I’ve been ‘saved’ … after all, it won’t make a difference at that point, will it …
 
I agree. But confession to whom? Eternal Security holders say that there is one mediator between us and the Father and that is Jesus. So as you might guess, Sacramental Confession is problematic to most Protestants. But as I learn more about it, I think it is out of ignorance. In my contemplation about converting to Catholicism, I am over this issue. I understand that the Priest does not “Forgive” my sins, only God can. The Priest assures me that if I confess my sins, God is faithful and just to forgive them. But Protestants take this confession directly to God.

And confession when? If I die, and theroretically speaking I have committed only a single sin, and don’t have the opportunity to go to conmmfession. Then what? Again, I am over the Sacramental Confession issue and that is not an issue keeping me from converting at this time. But I think that even if I do eventually convert, I don’t think I will be running around looking for a confessional after each failure fearing my soul. If I did, I would not be able to wander far from an open confessional. I mean, most “Good Catholics” I know go to confession rarely. Are all of their soulds in danger?

Also, it goes without saying that Protestants who are living in unrepented sin, cannot count on a close personal walk with God. While we don’t lose our salvation, we do lose the privelege of a close communion with God.

Tim
 
Yes…NOTHING can pluck me from the hand of the Father. I could switch to another religion, even a non christian one, or becom an atheist. I could commit murder. Anything I do or fail to do will not overpower the covering of the blood of Christ.
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Greetings

This is one of those statements that easily shows me that OSAS is false. No where in the bible does it preach we don’t have to be obedient. Saying you can commit murder, and not worry about getting into heaven is contrary to Christs Words. “Teach, what shall i do to get into heaven” “Keep the commandments and follow me”

I do not want to derail this thread, and forgive me if I came of as harsh. So, if you get a moment, go to biblechristiansociety.com and look for the Mp3 labeled “Once Saved always saved” It’s free. It’s not the best refutation, but its a good start.

Anyway…

Peace to you in Christ
 
Techno:

Again, Eternal Security is not PERMISSION to sin. Just as paying a speeding ticket is not permission to break the speed limit from here on out. Sin, even for Eternal Security holding Christians, causes a separation from God spiritually speaking. There are consequences, physical and spiritual for sin, especially unrepented, routinely committed sin. But again, it does not cause you to lose your salavation.

Also, there is a notion of “rewards” and “resposibilities” in heaven. remember “Because you have been faithful in this small thing, you will have great responsibilites in the kingdon.” Sin will have repercussions in heaven. You go, but you will not be entrusted with things if you were not faithful in life. But I understand that thsi begs the questions. What will be doing in heaven? Apparently, we will having certain resposnbilities in addition to or possibly to complement our eternal worship of God.

Tim
 
Tim_Cleveland said:
I agree. But confession to whom? Eternal Security holders say that there is one mediator between us and the Father and that is Jesus. So as you might guess, Sacramental Confession is problematic to most Protestants. But as I learn more about it, I think it is out of ignorance. In my contemplation about converting to Catholicism, I am over this issue. I understand that the Priest does not “Forgive” my sins, only God can. The Priest assures me that if I confess my sins, God is faithful and just to forgive them. But Protestants take this confession directly to God.

And confession when? If I die, and theroretically speaking I have committed only a single sin, and don’t have the opportunity to go to conmmfession. Then what? Again, I am over the Sacramental Confession issue and that is not an issue keeping me from converting at this time. But I think that even if I do eventually convert, I don’t think I will be running around looking for a confessional after each failure fearing my soul. If I did, I would not be able to wander far from an open confessional. I mean, most “Good Catholics” I know go to confession rarely. Are all of their soulds in danger?

Also, it goes without saying that Protestants who are living in unrepented sin, cannot count on a close personal walk with God. While we don’t lose our salvation, we do lose the privelege of a close communion with God.

Tim
Click to expand...
The Priest is just a screen between you and Jesus.
 
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